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	<title>Comments on: Why We Christians Always Lose Debates with Atheists&#8211;Thank God</title>
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	<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/</link>
	<description>Trying God&#039;s patience since 1958</description>
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		<title>By: Kent Perry, AZ.</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-20077</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Perry, AZ.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ya know, one of the things I love about America, is this: 
 
If someone wants to believe in unicorns or flying teapot&#039;s and compare that to evidence of archaeological discoveries that substantiate ancient texts as the historical records of people that actually lived while no such evidence for tea pots and unicorns exist,  much less ancient texts or digs.  If you want to diminish that into some childish mockery, cheaply enhancing your ego by belittling others, I suppose you can do that but for one caveat.  
 
If you want to see yourself as rational for saying that, don&#039;t be surprised when you say it to someone in person, they don&#039;t see you, as just another child of the grave, another punch in the face waiting to happen.  Then you can use it as more violence done in the name of religion but I doubt anyone would not see it as understandable.  You see, if you&#039;re like most of us, people see right through that kind of ridicule using clock and dagger subterfuge like that.   
 
They just figure, someone like that, usually has it coming to em.  
 
That isn&#039;t a threat by the way, you Godless Wonderboy.    
 
it&#039;s just real GOOD ADVICE </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya know, one of the things I love about America, is this:</p>
<p>If someone wants to believe in unicorns or flying teapot&#039;s and compare that to evidence of archaeological discoveries that substantiate ancient texts as the historical records of people that actually lived while no such evidence for tea pots and unicorns exist,  much less ancient texts or digs.  If you want to diminish that into some childish mockery, cheaply enhancing your ego by belittling others, I suppose you can do that but for one caveat. </p>
<p>If you want to see yourself as rational for saying that, don&#039;t be surprised when you say it to someone in person, they don&#039;t see you, as just another child of the grave, another punch in the face waiting to happen.  Then you can use it as more violence done in the name of religion but I doubt anyone would not see it as understandable.  You see, if you&#039;re like most of us, people see right through that kind of ridicule using clock and dagger subterfuge like that.  </p>
<p>They just figure, someone like that, usually has it coming to em. </p>
<p>That isn&#039;t a threat by the way, you Godless Wonderboy.   </p>
<p>it&#039;s just real GOOD ADVICE</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Perry, AZ.</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-20076</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Perry, AZ.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/#comment-20076</guid>
		<description>Sam Harris brilliant? I don&#039;t THINK so. 
 
in fact Harris intellectual snobbery, his cookie cutter copy pasted quotes he invokes like a conditioned response are easily anticipated during debates I have seen him in and he never fails to fall for his own hubris.    He certainly has more sophistication than the vapid vocal and vodka laced vitriol of Christopher Hitchens where all one has to do is let Hitchens pontificate long enough and you go selectively deaf just listening to the intentionally condescending stuck up tone that one usually gets the impression he is covering for some deep resentment he has of Christians.   
 
It&#039;s as if  as a child it were a Catholic School yard bully who used to beat him up for his milk money and he isn&#039;t quite able to get over it.     Someone like Vox Day might remind him of the kid who stole his bike as a kid.   
 
It&#039;s the attitudes of both, albeit polar opposites in style, the methods of attack are all the same.  Harris uses a much more subtle blend of ridicule and mockery.  He is however, is as dogmatic as any hell fire brimstone baptist zealot I have ever seen.   It is also a trait,  just as easily exploited as an unwillingness to consider facts that don&#039;t necessarily prove God unequivocally but give a real sense of why dismissing the concept of a creator is growing ever more irrational from both a logical and scientific position as well as a philosophical one.  
 
I have been in the trenches debating atheists for many years and see it as a great exercise in getting better at one thing.  Arguing with atheists.   
 
If that is what you want to aspire to become good at,  then have at it.  You will be well on your way to one of the biggest wastes of time I can think of if you are in need of any external positive affirm but if you want to learn how the Satanic slippery semantics of the author of all lies and the language of legion,  you can&#039;t find a better pitri dish for that kind of bacterium than the world of angry atheism.  NOTHING could be more irrational than atheist&#039;s with a chip on their shoulders and an axe to grind.  
 
The knee jerk tricky quickie comebacks like atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby , gets the usual high fives from the atheist peanut gallery as they all shake their pom poms with that typical sardonic grin on their puss, but it is when we take the phrase and pull it outside right from it&#039;s inside out position we see the ridiculousness of atheism&#039;s desperate approach to use such trickery to win at any cost using any means necessary.  
 
We examine the behavior of the atheist where the very word &quot;atheism&quot; itself is like all the other words using the letter &quot;A&quot; before them such as,  &quot;A-typical&quot;  &quot;A-social&quot; &quot;A-symmetric&quot;  &quot;A-sexual&quot; etc,. 
 
Words that denote having issues with being imbalanced without symmetry, problems with  social aptitude, sexual identity and just plane not normal as in &quot;a-typical&quot;.  This is where they define &quot;atheism&quot; as having something to do with a lack of belief where it is MUCH MORE more than merely a lack of belief.  These are people obsessed and actively disbelieving in a God they claim has no evidence for its existence while in the same voice believe in so many things they can&#039;t see, touch or smell much less verify using the scientific method but will excuse as scientific speculation in-lieu of throwing an entire theory away because it is (in their own view) the ONLY one we have.  
 
How ridiculous is it that a segment of society, engage in a movement of angrily arguing with Stamp collectors whose God is the stamp.  They would be swarming the chat rooms claiming to know more about stamp collecting than any hobbyist collecting stamps.  They would create websites that fuel their anger toward stamp collectors where the entire content of those websites is completely devoted to hating stamp collectors as they tell each other exaggerated tales of being the victims of fundamentalist hobbyists who quite literally &quot;shoved their stamp books down their throats.  They would be constantly attaching every single evil that has ever befallen mankind on the hobby of stamp collecting all the while not seeing themselves engaged in this their own time consuming hobby at all irrespective of whether they believed in stamps or not.  
 
They would devote months of their efforts industriously writing books such as &quot;The Stamp Delusion&quot;  or &quot;Stamps are not Great&quot;  or &quot;The end of Hobby&#039;s&quot; as the assumed author and  &quot;A-hobbyist&quot; Sam Harris would most likely be.   
 
That is of course,  if  being completely pre-occupied with hating religion and religious people, attacking them at every turn with extreme prejudice while actively hating and disbelieving God, is some kind of satanic hobby, like engaging in all that because you don&#039;t believe in it.  
 
is not a Satanic Religion </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam Harris brilliant? I don&#039;t THINK so.</p>
<p>in fact Harris intellectual snobbery, his cookie cutter copy pasted quotes he invokes like a conditioned response are easily anticipated during debates I have seen him in and he never fails to fall for his own hubris.    He certainly has more sophistication than the vapid vocal and vodka laced vitriol of Christopher Hitchens where all one has to do is let Hitchens pontificate long enough and you go selectively deaf just listening to the intentionally condescending stuck up tone that one usually gets the impression he is covering for some deep resentment he has of Christians.  </p>
<p>It&#039;s as if  as a child it were a Catholic School yard bully who used to beat him up for his milk money and he isn&#039;t quite able to get over it.     Someone like Vox Day might remind him of the kid who stole his bike as a kid.  </p>
<p>It&#039;s the attitudes of both, albeit polar opposites in style, the methods of attack are all the same.  Harris uses a much more subtle blend of ridicule and mockery.  He is however, is as dogmatic as any hell fire brimstone baptist zealot I have ever seen.   It is also a trait,  just as easily exploited as an unwillingness to consider facts that don&#039;t necessarily prove God unequivocally but give a real sense of why dismissing the concept of a creator is growing ever more irrational from both a logical and scientific position as well as a philosophical one. </p>
<p>I have been in the trenches debating atheists for many years and see it as a great exercise in getting better at one thing.  Arguing with atheists.  </p>
<p>If that is what you want to aspire to become good at,  then have at it.  You will be well on your way to one of the biggest wastes of time I can think of if you are in need of any external positive affirm but if you want to learn how the Satanic slippery semantics of the author of all lies and the language of legion,  you can&#039;t find a better pitri dish for that kind of bacterium than the world of angry atheism.  NOTHING could be more irrational than atheist&#039;s with a chip on their shoulders and an axe to grind. </p>
<p>The knee jerk tricky quickie comebacks like atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby , gets the usual high fives from the atheist peanut gallery as they all shake their pom poms with that typical sardonic grin on their puss, but it is when we take the phrase and pull it outside right from it&#039;s inside out position we see the ridiculousness of atheism&#039;s desperate approach to use such trickery to win at any cost using any means necessary. </p>
<p>We examine the behavior of the atheist where the very word &quot;atheism&quot; itself is like all the other words using the letter &quot;A&quot; before them such as,  &quot;A-typical&quot;  &quot;A-social&quot; &quot;A-symmetric&quot;  &quot;A-sexual&quot; etc,.</p>
<p>Words that denote having issues with being imbalanced without symmetry, problems with  social aptitude, sexual identity and just plane not normal as in &quot;a-typical&quot;.  This is where they define &quot;atheism&quot; as having something to do with a lack of belief where it is MUCH MORE more than merely a lack of belief.  These are people obsessed and actively disbelieving in a God they claim has no evidence for its existence while in the same voice believe in so many things they can&#039;t see, touch or smell much less verify using the scientific method but will excuse as scientific speculation in-lieu of throwing an entire theory away because it is (in their own view) the ONLY one we have. </p>
<p>How ridiculous is it that a segment of society, engage in a movement of angrily arguing with Stamp collectors whose God is the stamp.  They would be swarming the chat rooms claiming to know more about stamp collecting than any hobbyist collecting stamps.  They would create websites that fuel their anger toward stamp collectors where the entire content of those websites is completely devoted to hating stamp collectors as they tell each other exaggerated tales of being the victims of fundamentalist hobbyists who quite literally &quot;shoved their stamp books down their throats.  They would be constantly attaching every single evil that has ever befallen mankind on the hobby of stamp collecting all the while not seeing themselves engaged in this their own time consuming hobby at all irrespective of whether they believed in stamps or not. </p>
<p>They would devote months of their efforts industriously writing books such as &quot;The Stamp Delusion&quot;  or &quot;Stamps are not Great&quot;  or &quot;The end of Hobby&#039;s&quot; as the assumed author and  &quot;A-hobbyist&quot; Sam Harris would most likely be.  </p>
<p>That is of course,  if  being completely pre-occupied with hating religion and religious people, attacking them at every turn with extreme prejudice while actively hating and disbelieving God, is some kind of satanic hobby, like engaging in all that because you don&#039;t believe in it. </p>
<p>is not a Satanic Religion</p>
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		<title>By: Vanessa</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13320</link>
		<dc:creator>Vanessa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/#comment-13320</guid>
		<description>Personally I can&#039;t see how the atheist won the debate if he is still lost in Sin. Is he brilliant? In whose eyes? I&#039;m sure God is quite bored with his brilliance. But He is long suffering, loving and kind. If He were not where would many of us who are Christians be today? I&#039;m ever grateful He is patient. 
 
On the other hand, we tend to spend a lot of time trying to make God relevant to the world. But Jesus Christ being crucified on the Cross, dieing for an ungrateful human race, being raised from the dead to give us Eternal life is as relevant as God is going to make Himself. 
 
Though highly unpopular, there is a day of reckoning coming.  Jesus isn&#039;t trying to convince anyone to be saved. He is searching out his own sheep and knows us by name. We hear His voice and come to Him. Some now, some later.  But every story has a beginning, a middle and an end. Every story ends. 
 
Years ago a pastor from Brazil visited the church I was attending. I&#039;ll never forget theses words in his message,  
 
&quot;If they have no thirst leave them no water. &quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I can&#039;t see how the atheist won the debate if he is still lost in Sin. Is he brilliant? In whose eyes? I&#039;m sure God is quite bored with his brilliance. But He is long suffering, loving and kind. If He were not where would many of us who are Christians be today? I&#039;m ever grateful He is patient.</p>
<p>On the other hand, we tend to spend a lot of time trying to make God relevant to the world. But Jesus Christ being crucified on the Cross, dieing for an ungrateful human race, being raised from the dead to give us Eternal life is as relevant as God is going to make Himself.</p>
<p>Though highly unpopular, there is a day of reckoning coming.  Jesus isn&#039;t trying to convince anyone to be saved. He is searching out his own sheep and knows us by name. We hear His voice and come to Him. Some now, some later.  But every story has a beginning, a middle and an end. Every story ends.</p>
<p>Years ago a pastor from Brazil visited the church I was attending. I&#039;ll never forget theses words in his message, </p>
<p>&quot;If they have no thirst leave them no water. &quot;</p>
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		<title>By: John Shore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13199</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/#comment-13199</guid>
		<description>Wow. I&#039;m convinced. Thanks for clearing that up. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I&#039;m convinced. Thanks for clearing that up.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13198</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If you&#039;re going to decide that a god exists, because he might or might not, you might as well go the whole hog and declare the existence of leprechauns, unicorns, dragons, the Celestial Teapot, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The argument for them is just as strong, which is that there isn&#039;t any evidence at all. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#039;re going to decide that a god exists, because he might or might not, you might as well go the whole hog and declare the existence of leprechauns, unicorns, dragons, the Celestial Teapot, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The argument for them is just as strong, which is that there isn&#039;t any evidence at all.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-10772</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 06:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My first book, &quot;Penguins, Pain and the Whole Shebang&quot; is an apologetic. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first book, &quot;Penguins, Pain and the Whole Shebang&quot; is an apologetic.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-10766</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/#comment-10766</guid>
		<description>I would like to call myself a rational christian. I came to Christ from atheism through rationalism and the following of the laws of logic and thought. Christianity, as do all beliefs, requires both faith and reasoning. I would also like to add that there is a slew of reasoning christians in the relm of christian apologetics who can hold their own in the debate arena, esspecially since they represent the one and only truth. I challenge you to google &quot;christian apologetics&quot; and then have fun studying.  
 
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to call myself a rational christian. I came to Christ from atheism through rationalism and the following of the laws of logic and thought. Christianity, as do all beliefs, requires both faith and reasoning. I would also like to add that there is a slew of reasoning christians in the relm of christian apologetics who can hold their own in the debate arena, esspecially since they represent the one and only truth. I challenge you to google &quot;christian apologetics&quot; and then have fun studying. </p>
<p>1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1485</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/#comment-1485</guid>
		<description>Thank you! I really appreciate it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you! I really appreciate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kitchen Cabinets Plu</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1484</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitchen Cabinets Plu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/#comment-1484</guid>
		<description>Really nice site you have here. I&#039;ve been reading for a while but this post made me want to say 2 thumbs up. Keep up the great work </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really nice site you have here. I&#039;ve been reading for a while but this post made me want to say 2 thumbs up. Keep up the great work</p>
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		<title>By: johnshore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>johnshore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 07:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/extra-extra-atheists-whip-christians-in-debate-again-and-again/#comment-91</guid>
		<description>No, not of any given thing.  But I would definitely argue that any given person, starting from scratch, just looking around and at  himself, 
is half as likely to assume there&#039;s some kind of divine, overseeing creator at work as he is that there isn&#039;t.  The phenomenal complexity of life coupled with most people&#039;s innate sense of the divine within them generally, for any given person, renders the reality of a God at least as likely as the world being purely the result of mechanistic coincidences. Also, consider the actual relationship between how many people DO believe in God--a God, any god--and how many don&#039;t. A third of the people alive right now, for instance, believe in the Christian God. They can&#039;t all be stupid. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, not of any given thing.  But I would definitely argue that any given person, starting from scratch, just looking around and at  himself,</p>
<p>is half as likely to assume there&#039;s some kind of divine, overseeing creator at work as he is that there isn&#039;t.  The phenomenal complexity of life coupled with most people&#039;s innate sense of the divine within them generally, for any given person, renders the reality of a God at least as likely as the world being purely the result of mechanistic coincidences. Also, consider the actual relationship between how many people DO believe in God&#8211;a God, any god&#8211;and how many don&#039;t. A third of the people alive right now, for instance, believe in the Christian God. They can&#039;t all be stupid.</p>
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