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	<title>Comments on: What the Atheists Taught Me</title>
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	<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/</link>
	<description>Trying God&#039;s patience since 1958</description>
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		<title>By: Nick Gotts</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10599</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10599</guid>
		<description>By the way, Marcy, Stephen Jay Gould, in his comments about transitional forms, was I think talking about inter-species transitions (he argued that such transitions are typically too rapid to show up in the fossil record; subsequent work indicates that they do in fact sometimes do so). If he was talking about transitions between larger groups he was, despite his eminence, simply wrong - as the examples I&#039;ve listed show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, Marcy, Stephen Jay Gould, in his comments about transitional forms, was I think talking about inter-species transitions (he argued that such transitions are typically too rapid to show up in the fossil record; subsequent work indicates that they do in fact sometimes do so). If he was talking about transitions between larger groups he was, despite his eminence, simply wrong &#8211; as the examples I&#8217;ve listed show.</p>
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		<title>By: casey</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10608</link>
		<dc:creator>casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10608</guid>
		<description>trust you john, when bringing up debates here, you get religion, not so much religion, and science all involved. I think you do it on purpose. I think you delibertly try to find subjects that every one can argue about. Not just from religions stand point. But- I&#039;m sure you knew that you were doing that. lol </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>trust you john, when bringing up debates here, you get religion, not so much religion, and science all involved. I think you do it on purpose. I think you delibertly try to find subjects that every one can argue about. Not just from religions stand point. But- I&#039;m sure you knew that you were doing that. lol</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gotts</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10590</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10590</guid>
		<description>&quot;It would be much more convincing if scientists could produce substantive proof of animals that had developed an extra chromosome, for example, and had benefited by that in terms of survival of the fittest.&quot; - Marcy Muser

Google &quot;gene duplication&quot;. This is an important process in evolution. You might also google &quot;autopolyploidy&quot; and &quot;allopolyploidy&quot;, although these appear to be important only in plant evolution. As is usual with creationists, you are simply exposing your abysmal ignorance of science in general, and evolutionary theory in particular.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It would be much more convincing if scientists could produce substantive proof of animals that had developed an extra chromosome, for example, and had benefited by that in terms of survival of the fittest.&#8221; &#8211; Marcy Muser</p>
<p>Google &#8220;gene duplication&#8221;. This is an important process in evolution. You might also google &#8220;autopolyploidy&#8221; and &#8220;allopolyploidy&#8221;, although these appear to be important only in plant evolution. As is usual with creationists, you are simply exposing your abysmal ignorance of science in general, and evolutionary theory in particular.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gotts</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10588</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10588</guid>
		<description>&quot;As I’ve grown in my faith and been changed by it, therefore becoming more Christlike (I hope) I see things in people including loved ones that isn’t good and that previously when I didn’t believe I never noticed. With some it’s stuborness with others it’s ungraitfulness for some it might be dishonesty here and there or any other such thing that to most people wouldn’t be considered anything at all yet I see it as sin and to be quite frank, serious. I want to make it clear this doesn’t mean I’ve become more judgmental in any way,&quot; - Ross

But quite clearly, you have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As I’ve grown in my faith and been changed by it, therefore becoming more Christlike (I hope) I see things in people including loved ones that isn’t good and that previously when I didn’t believe I never noticed. With some it’s stuborness with others it’s ungraitfulness for some it might be dishonesty here and there or any other such thing that to most people wouldn’t be considered anything at all yet I see it as sin and to be quite frank, serious. I want to make it clear this doesn’t mean I’ve become more judgmental in any way,&#8221; &#8211; Ross</p>
<p>But quite clearly, you have.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gotts</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10587</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10587</guid>
		<description>&quot;He will not force them to serve Him - that’s not the kind of God He is.&quot; - Marcy Muser

Right. He&#039;ll just torture them for ever if they don&#039;t. Sick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He will not force them to serve Him &#8211; that’s not the kind of God He is.&#8221; &#8211; Marcy Muser</p>
<p>Right. He&#8217;ll just torture them for ever if they don&#8217;t. Sick.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gotts</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10586</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10586</guid>
		<description>&quot;The thing about hell and it being eternal is that we have no comprehension of how horrible sin is to God. If you were to see the way God did, you would praise Him for hell.&quot; - Ross

That is utterly disgusting. You choose to worship a being who (you believe) will torture people for ever. That being, if it existed, would be evil far beyond anything human beings are capable of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The thing about hell and it being eternal is that we have no comprehension of how horrible sin is to God. If you were to see the way God did, you would praise Him for hell.&#8221; &#8211; Ross</p>
<p>That is utterly disgusting. You choose to worship a being who (you believe) will torture people for ever. That being, if it existed, would be evil far beyond anything human beings are capable of.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10605</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10605</guid>
		<description>Nick: You&#039;ve said a lot of interesting and compelling things here. I&#039;ve blocked you from the site, though, because once you say things like, &quot;What a fantastically stupid thing to say,&quot; &quot;Are you sure you understand English?&quot; and, &quot;Again, you reveal your profound ignorance&quot; (all statements I&#039;ve deleted from your comments) you show yourself to be someone too vitriolic for me to have to put up with. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick: You&#039;ve said a lot of interesting and compelling things here. I&#039;ve blocked you from the site, though, because once you say things like, &quot;What a fantastically stupid thing to say,&quot; &quot;Are you sure you understand English?&quot; and, &quot;Again, you reveal your profound ignorance&quot; (all statements I&#039;ve deleted from your comments) you show yourself to be someone too vitriolic for me to have to put up with.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gotts</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10602</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10602</guid>
		<description>&quot;Furthermore, neither theory can be proved or disproved logically and/or evidently. That means strict atheists should also have to take a leap of faith to believe in something that can&#8217;t be reached with logical reasoning.&quot; - Blizzinho 
 
No, they don&#039;t. One can accept a theory or assumption &lt;i&gt;provisionally&lt;/i&gt;, because it is currently the best supported by evidence and argument, but be ready to abandon it if new evidence comes to light. That is the scientific attitude (and one that theistic scientists, if they are any good, follow in their scientific work); but it is emphatically &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; the attitude most theists take toward their religious beliefs. Rather, many of them boast about how certain they are, and how they will never change these beliefs whatever happens. That&#039;s faith. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Furthermore, neither theory can be proved or disproved logically and/or evidently. That means strict atheists should also have to take a leap of faith to believe in something that can&rsquo;t be reached with logical reasoning.&quot; &#8211; Blizzinho</p>
<p>No, they don&#039;t. One can accept a theory or assumption <i>provisionally</i>, because it is currently the best supported by evidence and argument, but be ready to abandon it if new evidence comes to light. That is the scientific attitude (and one that theistic scientists, if they are any good, follow in their scientific work); but it is emphatically <i>not</i> the attitude most theists take toward their religious beliefs. Rather, many of them boast about how certain they are, and how they will never change these beliefs whatever happens. That&#039;s faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gotts</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10601</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10601</guid>
		<description>&quot;So where are the transitional forms, with traits of dinosaurs and traits of birds?&quot; - Marcy Muser 
 
See my earlier comment, on &lt;i&gt;Archaeopteryx&lt;/i&gt;, and on recent discoveries of flightless feathered dinosaurs. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;So where are the transitional forms, with traits of dinosaurs and traits of birds?&quot; &#8211; Marcy Muser</p>
<p>See my earlier comment, on <i>Archaeopteryx</i>, and on recent discoveries of flightless feathered dinosaurs.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gotts</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/comment-page-6/#comment-10600</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/what-the-atheists-taught-me/#comment-10600</guid>
		<description>&quot;And there are many other issues that bring evolution into serious question, from criticisms of the Big Bang theory (even from evolutionists), to chemical hurdles in creating a living cell from nonliving matter even when strictly controlled by human intelligence&quot; - Marcy Muser 
 
Neither of these has anything to do with the theory of evolution in the usual sense, which is about how life diversifies and changes once in existence. There is, however, fascinating work on abiogenesis going on - google &quot;Shostak&quot; for example. My hunch is that living cells will indeed be created in the laboratory within the next few decades. However, I know very well that creationists will then shift the goalposts - indeed, I predict that they will try to argue that this is evidence &lt;i&gt;for&lt;/i&gt; creationism (because the lab procedure required intelligence), despite having insisted up to that point that the fact scientists have &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; created living cells is evidence for creationism. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;And there are many other issues that bring evolution into serious question, from criticisms of the Big Bang theory (even from evolutionists), to chemical hurdles in creating a living cell from nonliving matter even when strictly controlled by human intelligence&quot; &#8211; Marcy Muser</p>
<p>Neither of these has anything to do with the theory of evolution in the usual sense, which is about how life diversifies and changes once in existence. There is, however, fascinating work on abiogenesis going on &#8211; google &quot;Shostak&quot; for example. My hunch is that living cells will indeed be created in the laboratory within the next few decades. However, I know very well that creationists will then shift the goalposts &#8211; indeed, I predict that they will try to argue that this is evidence <i>for</i> creationism (because the lab procedure required intelligence), despite having insisted up to that point that the fact scientists have <i>not</i> created living cells is evidence for creationism.</p>
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