Some one needed to remind people this is not a debate forum…it’s a comment posting area where those who love, admire and adore John Shore and his witty repertory can come and read, laugh and share.

You are asking the wrong question(s). That question cannot be answered. Even speculatively. There are speculative questions for which there is no credible response.

BTW Lazy, You were surprise at my lack of interest in debating creation vs evolution (being the logical/mathematical type) a few days back. I posted my explanation on my blog earlier today.

lazy – What if we are wrong God exists and Jesus also – I have to agree here that if we are wrong on this point, then we’re certainly doomed to hell. And of course, there’s a possibility, however remote, that we could be wrong, along with billions of other hindus, muslims, scientologists, and others throughout history who either chose not to believe in the right god or never had the opportunity. Unfortunately I have no way of verifying which, if any of these religions is the one true one, so picking any one seems to offer only a marginally higher chance of salvation than not believing in any at all (and provides additional benefits here on earth, imo).

But that’s not really the precise counterpart to my question for John, which is this: What if you were, while alive and able to still decide one way or another, presented with irrefutable proof of God’s existence? I really can’t imagine what this would be, and yes it is HIGHLY speculative, but presumably if I did receive such proof, I’d convert. I’d start believing. It wouldn’t be a choice, I suppose I’d have to believe because I would just know that a god existed. I suppose that I would have to ignore all the carefully reasoned arguments against the likelihood of any particular God’s existence.

On another note, I don’t think I’ve ever really really taken that thought seriously, and it actually helps me understand the mind of the faithful a lot better than I did previously.

Harv…now pay attention.

"Well,

We all one day will find out the truth behind there is no god thing huh? but by then it will be a little late."

I think a rational, omnipotent God would be more offended by someone who professes a hollow faith, or believes just enough to be "saved" over an atheist who is simply being honest. Don't you think?

"I would imagine the key is to let alone and let live, argument only solidifies the concrete already in the athiest heart,"

Conrete in my heart? A little harsh, don't you think? I don't call you naive or brainwashed for believing in an all-knowing all-powerful bearded, cloud-dwelling Caucasian in the sky who created the world as it is, rewards the good, punishes the wicked, and most importantly, promises ever-lasting life to the faithful.

"Prayer is the key, the Holy Spirit can do all that we cant."

To an atheist, prayer is self-meditation. We rely on action as opposed to words. Those actions have been translated into the nice, cozy, modern, lifesytle you enjoy, courtesy of those heathen scientists, secular humanists, and intellectuals. Imagine if people stopped praying, and started acting. Wow. What a difference.

"The athiest will disbelieve until put in a situation to where they have to make a solid choice, but then it may be too late, but that is where prayer comes in at."

Again – if God exists and is all-knowing, he'd probably be more offended by deceptive belief rather than total disbelief.

"You know that being a christian doesn’t make anyone perfect nor being anything makes anyone perfect, but we have to do our best to live the example set forth in the scriptures."

Ah yes – set forth in the Scriptures. This must mean you accept the Bible in its entirety. Abstain from eating pork and shellfish, stone those who break the Ten Commandments, kill anyone who tells you to worship other Gods, and tell the current slaves of Sudan, Chad, and Niger to accept their permanent servitude, as it is written.

"The ones that are set against change are the first to use any excuse to hide behind in defense of thier own belief, it takes a strong faith and belief system to be an athiest everyday, more so than it does to be a christian."

Yes it is difficult and thank you for noticing. We've gone over this. It's certainly more heart-warming and easier to envision an all-knowing all-powerful God in the sky who created the world as it is, rewards the good, punishes the wicked, and most importantly, promises ever-lasting life to the faithful. Who wants to die?

Athieism is a religion all its own it falls hand in hand with ”humanism” in fact the huminist manifesto could very well be the athiest manifesto, hum……food for thought. thanks-Harv"

Atheism is not a religion, Harv. Its simply stating the obvious. There is no proof of God. Conversely, there is no proof there is no God either. But why ask that question Harv? I also can't prove that Pluto was once colonized by pink unicorns or that pigs speak fluent Chinese went left completely alone. It doesn't do any real good to even question whether or not God exists, does it? Atheists live for the here and now because it's all we know for sure.

Of course it is possible to answer the question and i will prove it to you. When i was 17 a read many books of Carlos Castaneda. He described his encounters with a yaqui indian named Don Juan who introduced him to a kind of shamanism and trained him to be his succesor. Maybe you have heard of Castaneda. Back then I was fascinated because his teachings were great from a philosophical point of view and i actually found myself BELIEVING that Don Juan existed and everything good Carlos wrote was true and not fictitious. I read every single book. Some years later I discovered the massive criticism against Castaneda. I read studies of people who actually showed in a clear way that Castanedas work was full of inconsistencies and that it was probably all made up. Castaneda turned out to be a notorious story teller, liar and one interested in making money with his tails. I was shocked and sad. But after a while I thought Ok this guy actually did a good job writing fiction which has some fundamental truths in it. And it would all be fine if he had admitted that it was fiction. But he didn't. So I felt betrayed by Castaneda but kept all the good and interesting "teachings" of "Don Juan" about life and death. if I was a Christian and someone showed me a Tomb in Jerusalem with the inscript "here lies Jesus son of Joseph and Mary" I would be shocked, I would be devastated but after a while I would try and keep the core of his teaching namely Love and compassion and forgiveness and after a while it wouldn't matter at all that he wasn't God.

See it is possible to answer the question I just did.

Why is it so hard for you ?

Now a question to myself and all other atheists :

What if we are wrong God exists and Jesus also…

It's highly speculative BUT i will get to know the answer when I die.

So if at the moment of my death I "see" God then I 'll say sorry God but you really made a good job hiding yourself from me. Then he 'll send me to hell where i 'll hang around with Jim Morison and Keith Richards (I do hope to outlive him).

On the other hand if there is nothing i guess my last thought will be something like "ahhh i was right all the time".

So, in a final bit of recapping: I have no idea what I would think or believe if every single thing we currently understand about reality were altered to the unimaginable degree it would all HAVE to be in order for there to exist the kinds of proofs for the kinds of things you're here postulating.

Ok you are right time travel isn't such a good idea and one could question any document that claims Jesus didn't exist.

But again what if he was mortal and didn't resurrect ?

Remember last year the hype about his Tomb being found in Jerusalem ?
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,159…
I am of course sceptical about the whole story cause it's not solid proof yet but in any case it made me think.

What about you ? did you think about it when you heard the story (this goes to all Christians not just John)

I mean if this is actually Jesus Tomb then one should reconsider everything about Christianity ? If it is true how would it change your faith ?