Dear Atheists,
On behalf of evangelical Christians everywhere, I would hereby like to apologize for ever, in any way, insisting that atheists should become Christian. The reason it’s wrong for us to insist upon that isn’t because we don’t think it an excellent idea for atheists to convert to Christianty. It’s wrong (we now see) because communicating that to atheists cannot help but be righteously offensive to them. And offending people isn’t exactly the shortest path to in any real way communing with them, is it?
We see that now. We’re totally sorry we didn’t see it sooner.
We certainly get angry enough when you atheists tell us why we shouldn’t believe in God, don’t we? So of course it’s unreasonable for us not to expect you to get at least as angry at our insisting that you should believe in God. Duh. Of course that’s how you’d respond to that. What were we thinking?
Please understand that what we were, in fact, thinking, is that we love you. The Big Push behind our insisting that you need to become Christian is that we don’t want you to go to hell. As you know, we believe an eternity in hell is the fate awaiting anyone who dies without first believing in Jesus Christ. We don’t want that to happen to you. We don’t want that to happen to anyone. So we try to save you, see, by … well, being pretty completely obnoxious to you.
Our bad!
Please don’t think of us as shallow, egotistical, intolerant, intrusive, overbearing, smug, judgmental, hypocritical power-mongers. Try instead to think of us as people who genuinely care about you, and are only trying to stop you from suffering in a way that we believe you will suffer if you don’t open up your heart to the joys and realities of what we very definitely believe is God. That’s all it is. We sincerely apologize for all the times and ways that we’ve turned what we only ever really meant as an expression of love for you into something that we now understand you couldn’t have possibly received as that.
Furthermore, we’d like to extend to you our true and deep respect for the way you’ve utilized and shown your respect for rational thought, which (believe it or not) we, too, hold of dear and paramount value. We’re actually huge proponents of rational thought—a fact that we know too often gets lost in the media storms occasioned by our, shall we say, less personally constrained brethren. We apologize for not often enough making clear the degree to which we value rational thought—and for how much we appreciate why anyone would want to make it the primary vehicle they use to wind their way through this decidedly bizarre series of experiences we call life.
Okay? One love, atheists! For sure.
Well, thanks for listening! Bye! See ya’ … constantly! Everywhere! What with us all sharing the same world, and all.
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
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Evolution is fact – scientists (except those employed by the biased, pro-Christian Discovery Institute) are in agreement.
Well, to be fair to religion, those employed by the “biased, pro-Christian” Catholic Church also agree that evolution is good science, as do many religious people.
Indeed a very unconvincing story. The fact remains – there is no proof of God and there never will be. There is tons of proof for evolution (we witness it in our lifetime: Galapagos bird experiment, Industry Revolution monarch butterflies in the UK, mutating viruses, a human tailbone, appendix, male nipples, flightless birds, whales hind leg bones, lunged fished fossils, feathered dinosaurs, etc. etc.) If we’re able to witness it within our own measely lifespan, imagine what it looks like over billions of years. Evolution is fact – scientists (except those employed by the biased, pro-Christian Discovery Institute) are in agreement. Evolution, more than any other fact of life, severly weakens the argument for a living, personal God. Which is why so many Christians don’t want to learn about it , reject it, and rely on “faith.” If you rely on faith alone, don’t pass off Intelligent Design as good science, since its based on mere “faith.” Furthermore, if you can rely on that same “faith” to explain the origins of man, then certainly you can rely on the same “faith” to cure you from diseases instead of science.
Ok I can’t wait for the lost comment to ressurect from the dead so I write a new one.
Tim , “it has several good points that none of you can dispute.” , wanna bet ?
First of all the main logical argument of the student is that here exist no relative or complementry ideas just absolute ones. So there is no evil because evil is just the absense of God because God is Good. Well this may look convincing but it’s actually a tautology. Counter example : Peace and war. You can say that war is the absense of peace but would you really claim that war does not exist ?
To backup up this argument he uses examples from physics and there he really messes up.
1) Heat is the amount of energy exchange between 2 bodies caused by temperature differences. It is not an absolut quantity that a single body has. But it is well defined and measurable. Cold is a common word and not a physical quantity. But when comparing 2 bodies of different temperature you can always ssay which is hotter and which is colder. He also confuses heat with temperature saying that it can’t be negative. Actually it can.
2)” It (he means science) uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one”
Wrong, wrong ,wrong. First of all we can measure electromagnetic fields and yes we have understood them pretty well just google “maxwells equations” and “quantum electrodynamics”.
Also recall that ordinary light is also an electromagnetic field.
3)“Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?”
Typicall creationist argument we have debated a lot about this one here. The answer is : large time scales
4)”So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.”
my favorite from the whole story, that’s not even wrong . I guess the professor should be glad that no psychopath atheist was in the room who would break his head just to show that he has a brain.
Tim maybe if you wanna make a point here you ll use your own arguments or a better story
(Correction of my last post: “If you’ve never seen it, it must NOT be scientific.)
Well Tim, because I’m at work I only have limited time to respond, and so this comment gets it:
“Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?”
“Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?”
Have you ever seen an atom split? No? Then how do you know it happens? If you’ve never seen it, it must be scientific. So all those nuclear warheads are nothing to worry about, correct?
That being said, you CAN see evolution happen. When we breed dogs, or scientists watch the generational change in fruit flies, or you receive a flu shot every year because the virus has evolved to adapt to our immune system.
Beyond that, we know evolution happens because that is what the evidence points to. If new evidence presents itself, we will go in that direction. If you come up with a better explanation for the existing evidence, we will also go with that.
If evolution is ever shown to be completely wrong, it will be scientists who do so.
Tim ,
I actually posted a comment where I explained why the arguments of that “brave” student are wrong wrong and maybe “not even wrong”.
I posted it several hours ago but it seems that it is either caought in some spam filter or that I am somehow being sencored here ….
maybe john can find it and put it in place.
Tim: no, it’s doesn’t have any particularly good points. The story is a an exercise in building a straw man and then knocking it down again.
I could make up a similar story in which I feature a character named “Timk Urek,” whom I portray as an arrogant fool whose silly claims are shot down by a bunch of sincere believers. Would that convince you of anything?
It’s pretty easy to claim victory when you can make up both sides of the conversation.
As much as you would like to shirk it, you cannot escape the duty to judge: we all have to figure out what is moral and what isn’t: yourself included. It isn’t a matter of arrogance, it is an unavoidable reality of being a thinking being. You are no different at all: the only difference is that you simply refuse to acknowledge what you are doing: you neglect to acknowledge the step you must make when you judge whatever you believe is God to be good, and thus to trust that belief in that particular God.
Any clever, self-sealing ideology, could claim the same: you don’t see that I’m right because you can’t. Bwahahaha!
Really now, though: is that tactic and accusation anything more than lame? If you had a good argument in the first place, you wouldn’t have to resort to comforting yourself with the fact that you are right because you have some sort of special mystical insight that others do not.
Funny that none of you actually respond to the post itself as much as you just criticize it from a distance. Yes it is simple, almost like a chick tract, but it has several good points that none of you can dispute.
http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com
tim kurek
From wikipedia: “Chick tracts are short comic-style tracts created by American publisher Jack Chick. Chick tracts are often controversial for their enthusiastic endorsement of fundamentalist Christianity and condemnation of other religions, including Catholicism.”
I don’t know if Tim’s post was a direct quote from a Chick tract, but there is one an awful lot like it…with an evil science professor losing a debate with a pure Christian student.
What’s a “Chick Tract”?
Perfect way to end it. Thanks Sabina–and to you all.
I loved it too eventhough I didn't comment. Best blog dialog I've seen. Thanks
No, no: It was fun. It's just that… well, you can tell it's now officially Going Nowhere, and its participants are down to two or three. It's like a party that's just … over. But it was a fantastic party! I loved it!
Before you do close up, anyone and everyone is welcome to go to my humble blog and argue about evolution.
Sorry if we've overstayed our welcome John.
Oh, wait: I see. Go in as if I were editing the page. Lemme open that up, and see what I find…
John –
You go in like you are going to edit the page… someplace, there should be a sidebar or options for things other than the main content to edit. In my case, it's a sidebar on the right. There should be a tab that says "Discussions", open it… and uncheck "allow comments".
VOILA!
~smj
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