We Christians spend a lot of time thinking and talking about the divinity of Jesus, don’t we? We’re very comfortable with that aspect of His nature and experience.
It seems to me we’re not quite as comfortable, though, with Christ having been an Actual Human Guy. That part is a little … fuzzier, for us. We cringe, for example, at the idea of Jesus having had a sex drive.
We want our Christ to have been “fully man,” as we put it—but without the sex drive.
But isn’t that like bowling—but without the pins? There is no bowling without the pins. There’s just … goofy-looking shoes.
Anyway, how someone could be at once sinless and fully man is a mystery for theologians and Important Church Leaders to figure out and comment upon. What do I know? I’m just a lowly believer. (I equate having a sex drive with necessarily being sinful, by the way, only insofar as Jesus, in Matthew 5:27-28, says, “Do not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” And it just seems to me that virtually every man with a sex drive looks at a woman lustfully … oh, I don’t know … at least once a day? Maybe twice, if he’s had a good night’s sleep?)
I am, however (being a late-life convert and former Christianity disdainer) extremely familiar with the reasons non-Christians tend to shun Christians and Christianity. Take it from me: Chief among those reasons is that we Christians have a very distinct tendency to act like nothing whatsoever is wrong with us.
We do that because we want to be—or at least act as if we are—Christ-like. And there was certainly nothing wrong with Christ, is there? Therefore, there can or certainly should be nothing wrong with us, right? Righteously right.
But that there’s nothing wrong with us just doesn’t jibe with the truth about human life that all humans, including all non-Christians, know, which is that a whole bunch of stuff is always wrong with everybody.
Life hurts. Every mortal person is riddled with doubts about who they are, and how they’re doing, and whether they’re good enough, and whether anyone loves them. Those sorts of thoughts and doubts are in very large part what it means to be human.
Non-Christians feel like Christians are so busy trying to pretend they’re Christ-like that they too often refuse to acknowledge that, first and foremost, they’re human. They think we’re lying—that, in fact, we’re willfully self-deluded hypocrites—because we refuse to acknowledge our humanity. They don’t want to become Christians because they don’t (as they see it) want to spend their lives lying to themselves and others.
I know that we Christians aren’t self-deluded liars, of course. I’m just saying that it’s easy enough for us to sometimes come across that way. I have no idea what the solution to that might be. But I suspect it has something to do with our getting a lot more comfortable with the part our faith that holds that Christ was fully man.
I think that if we can allow Christ to appear more human to us, then maybe we can allow ourselves to appear more human to others. And I think that would go a very long way toward helping our relationships with non-Christians.
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
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I have a problem with the apparent disconnect between the use of the word “adultery” in those words of Jesus and the current modern definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery
By that definition, one cannot commit adultery unless one is married. Period. BIG period. So is it possible that this particular reference to Jesus has been misinterpreted?
Adultery, like Sodomy seems to be a word that is used remarkably irresponsibly carelessly in these types of discussions.
Well as an atheist I can say I find all of this very interesting…the idea that some people find sex a "sin" is puzzling to me. I can say that I'm a moral person ( I'm often told by my christian brothers that this is not possible without god) I would have to say that there is no greater expression of love between two people then when it includes sex. It is the strongest instinct that we have, just as the expression of love is the strongest emotion we have as humans. Why would a god make us this way and make it a wrong ? These to things tie together naturally….This is why many studies have proven that being a believer or a non believer doesn't make you more or less likely to "sin". If everyone was able to control themselves and not "sin" we would not survive as a species.
Ric Booth's comment is well worth a second look.
Good stuff, keeping it real.
John, I am new to your blogs but appreciate your transparency and that you insist on "keeping it real." I often find myself a "disdainer of Christians" and I am one! This is something that I am working on.
I think that the reason that Jesus was sinless is because He was not in bondage to His flesh. He (God) set an example for us knowing full well that we were not capable of being sinless (or sexless) but demonstrating to us what it means to live in the spirit vs. the flesh.
ica: perfectly said. i agree. thanks!!
fun experiment. mention in any bible study near you that Jesus may have had a sex drive. then, insist that to be "fully man" he would have to. he may have even been attracted to Mary M.! then listen to how many people grumble and groan and give all kinds of wacky reasons that it cannot be true. you may even be asked to leave!
im no troll, but it would be a better topic than most bible studies that just repeat the same thing over and over while ignoring great insights like this one. people can debate the divinity of Christ until they are blue in the face but the gospel is utterly destroyed if Jesus is not completely man. if he had the "God cannot sin" super power then what was the point of the exercise? might as well assume the cross was painless also, maybe even pleasant. ridiculous.
in case i lost you, i believe Jesus is King, and church people are usually dumb. Mary M. had to have been hot, but that just makes me all the more in Love with Jesus. no sex scandals there. nope, there is one amazing dude that walked away from pleasure and chose suffering to heal us all! it really is better to see it this way.
This is in response to something from a week or so ago:
Of course Jesus was and is Man, how else could He be relevant for these two millennia? And any other definition would involve magic and the supernatural, and that has always been a weak theological line.
And yes, anything other than God is blasphemy, that is the definition of blasphemy; what Jesus did and does is enable us to transcend the mundane, to assist us in joining the Spirit.
The whole point of the spiritual journey is to become one again, to become more than we were, to get as close to the ineffable as possible.
And, as a last note: The bible becomes holy only when it assists us in going to where we ought to be. If it is just a recipe book to be memorized and followed mindlessly, it remains merely a book.
No, no–don’t post less! Why? What you’ve said here is interesting!
Second Michele posting again.
I feel like I talked out of school on my first post, (Under Men.Don’t. Change.) Now I know the verse I quoted has been talked about for at least two blog posts. (see embarressed look.)
Okay, I see another issue going on here, underneath the whole sex issue. First, let me clarify that I go under the “screws up at least 100 times a day” catagory. I’m not claiming sinless perfectionism.
But if you’ll permit me delve into a dicey subject here?
Jesus said, Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect.
The Bible also says “No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.”
Romans 8 says “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who DO NOT walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.”
It goes on to say that Christ came so that the “righteous requirements of the law might be fullfilled in us.” I believe this refers to not only forgiveness of sin, but enabling us to walk in obedience to righteousness.
Romans 6:
“For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin – because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.”
As this is not my blog, and I really shouldn’t take up so much space with my posts, I’ll only ask that people take a quick look at what Romans 6 says about being slaves to sin vs. being slaves to righteousness.
See, while the Bible does teach clearly that we are all hopelessly depraved sinners, it seems to have this funny notion that the power of Christ is enough to help us actually overcome sin. Not just justify us before God, but actually get the sin out of our lives. For good.
Without Christ, we sin because we have to sin. No question there.
With Christ, we don’t HAVE to sin.
We simply choose not to take advantage of the power that has been offered us.
Hey, we’ve all looked at our own lives and said “Man, I screwed up. and I keep screwing up.” And we look at the lives of others and see the same thing. So it seems logical to say: “We all commit this sin, and we’ll all keep commiting this sin, so let’s just accept that about ourselves and move on.”
(Unless the sin is somethng like murder. Then we tend to insist that the person “Get the Victory” immediately.)
But if we say that Christians HAVE to lust or commit any other sin aren’t we casting doubt upon what God has promised to do for us?
By the way, getting victory over sin would NOT violate the principle of “Anyone who says they have no sin is a liar.” Even if you never sinned another day in your life, you would still not be without sin – because you’ve already sinned, are a sinner, and of yourself can do nothing. If you stopped sinning, it would just be the power of the Holy Spirit, not your will power and NOT you earning your own salvation. (You’d have to have been perfect all your life to qualitfy for **that**)
I admit these texts are hard for me to understand because I don’t know anyone personally who just stopped sinning. And because I am no where within a million miles of sinless.
But I have to stop myself from saying “I’ll never change. I’ll always be this way. I’ll always commit this sin.” Because I don’t want to deny the ability of Holy Spirit to change me.
That’s what I have taken up all this space on John’s blog to say.
(Hi, John. Nice blog. I’ll try to read more and post less.)
Oh John. Your blog always eats my long comments! lol
Plz approve second one. Thank you!
But sexual feeling is not sin nature. That’s part of humanity. To give birth the next generation.. With this feeling the race of human being is continued.
Sexual feeling is the only feeling that if it gets controled and satisfied by marriage, makes faith more strong. Mean it has proximately its influence on faith. The first step to make them away from loving ego to love other one. And it is for both, woman and man.
God created this feeling for both husband and wife live in love and enjoy each other and have good children, and in this way story of creation get continued.
“It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might live with her in love. When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about unnoticed. When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, saying: “If you give us a goodly child, we vow we shall ever be grateful.” (Quran)
As long as Jesus (peace be upon him) was a fully human being, he had this nature..
Jesus was fully man without the SIN NATURE.
threw out this blog and expesially the comments I have heard so far it seems to me that, me being an atheist, that Jesus and his dieing i merely a coping mechanism of some sort. Such as, “I feel bad for what i did, and just saying sorry is not enough” so in conclusion they have a guy who died to forgive what ever they might do wrong. Tell me what you think about this John.
“Simple prayer to try, if you so desire, “God reveal Yourself to me. I’m not sure if You are real or not.” This prayer hinges on your honesty. If you sincerely want to know, God will answer that prayer.”
Have done this multiple times in the past. But for you, I’ll give it another try.
If I happen to get a response, I’ll let you know.
Billy B I just saw you message #33
How do you know that I haven’t prayed for hours and hours to God to give me some sign of his existence ? Actually some years ago I did. I also have tried various kinds of meditation. And I have spend much time pondering of there is any scientific evidence of God’s existence. So Guess what ? God did not appear to me , I have not attained satori and there is (objectively) no evidence at all for God’s existence. Now I am fine with that no problem really.
But what about other people who really suffer and pray to God ?
People with Aids , cancer children who have lost their families and are abused. They would all be glad if God would give them an answer but he doesn’t (I know that from personal accounts of such people). So I m sorry but your cute little recipe to find God just doesn’t work.
dain bramaged,
Have a pleasant day.
Wait, I cannot fathom it being so starightfowarrd.
Billy B ,
you shouldn’t take that literally instead with a grain of salt Ok ? One could write books with what the message that the church has send to mankind over the last 2000 years was and is I oversimplified intentionally there.
Anyway you version of the message is also not very appealing at least to me. The thing with the “sin virus” is such an just a trick to get people actually join religion. If you think you are sick you will search a cure and Christianity kindly offers you the best one.
We are not born sinners. We are born to survive. We have developed strategies to do that which are often violent. And in the course of thousands of years some people apply violence not only as protection but because they find pleasure in doing so. But that doesn’t mean that it is inherent to all of us it is something that evolved. Now there are various ways to treat violent behavior without taking the “antidote of Christ”.
Also Billy B if the message was modernized it would not be lie instead it would become something closer to reality than the fairy (or horror) tail it is now.
Questioning the divinity of Christ and His message is not causing trouble . Simple prayer to try, if you so desire, “God reveal Yourself to me. I’m not sure if You are real or not.” This prayer hinges on your honesty. If you sincerely want to know, God will answer that prayer.
“If the message was modernized then it would be a lie.”
Unless it was a lie to begin with…
(Sorry…this is me, causing trouble again…)
dain bramaged, Try to be perfect like Jesus, he had no sex and never ever comited a sin, or you will burn in hell ”
That is not the message, you missed it. It is, we all were born with a “sin virus” and unless you receive the antidote of Christ you will perish.
If the message was modernized then it would be a lie.
Oh, and the resurrection. That’s important too, that he didn’t stay dead.
So you’re straight-edgeY. Got it. You’re a straight, hypertense guy who gets drunk with old men. Well. Everyone’s got a lifestyle.
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