A bit more on the general subject touched upon with yesterday’s, “Stop Wasting Time Looking for Mr. Right.”
If you’re a single woman, a good thing to understand about any man with whom you’re thinking about getting more deeply involved or even married is that men don’t change. They are who they are. Love and accept the man you’re interested in as he is, or move on.
If your potential life-mate possesses a quality that you don’t like—a habit, personality quirk, major behavior tendency, political philosophy, whatever—then you need to ask yourself whether you can live with that quality, or not. If not, then move on to bachelor number two; bachelor number one isn’t your guy.
When it comes to figuring out if you can live with your man’s problematic quality, ask yourself this: Does that quality offend your values, or your taste? If stuff he does, says, or thinks run contrary to your values, then that’s a serious issue. But if what he offends is your taste—if in effect he simply does things differently than you’d prefer him to—then probably not so much.
A value difference could be a deal breaker. But a style difference shouldn’t be.
Let’s say you love a man who is a motorcycle enthusiast. You’d rather he didn’t ride a motorcycle, because it’s dangerous. But is riding a motorcycle a values issue, or a style issue? Though a case can be made for it being a values issue (since for the sake of our loved ones we should all remain as safe as possible), it’s primarily a matter of style, insofar as knowing that a person drives a motorcycle tells you nothing about that person’s character; it’s something they do, and no indicator at all of who they are. So as a problem, you’re going to have to let go the fact that your man drives a motorcycle—or you should at least be a lot more willing to let that go, to accept that quality of his. Because the bottom line is that he does ride a motorcycle. That’s who he is. There isn’t a different man inside of him who doesn’t ride a motorcycle, a man that you can somehow get to replace the man you know. Though it may sound harsh, that your man rides a motorcycle is your problem, not his.
You can’t change that about him. Your choice is to either leave him over the fact that he rides a motorcycle, or embrace it as part of what makes you love him so.
The choice you don’t want to make is to try to change whatever problem you have with your man into his problem, by complaining about it, or trying to make him feel guilty about it, or (even) crying about it. Sure, at the time you do those things, a guy may respond to the emotionality of the moment by saying (and perhaps even believing) that he will change. But he won’t. Because once the drama has cleared, the truth of who he really is will begin to reassert itself, and he will begin to think that you don’t actually have a right to tell him who or how he should be. And as sure as one day follows the next, he’s then going to start resenting you for trying to make your own will his own.
And as likely as not, he’ll then start lying to you. He’ll start sneaking doing whatever it is he does that you don’t like. And then you’ll “catch” him doing that thing.
And there you’ll be, stuck in that nasty little loop in which so many couples do get stuck, where the woman’s either constantly nagging at her man to stop doing something he keeps doing anyway, or is deeply upset at discovering that her man’s been lying to her about something he’s been doing all along that he’s not “supposed” to be doing at all.
Avoid that trap forever, going in, by realizing that you’re supposed to love your partner for who they are, not for who you want them to become.
The thing is, persisting in trying to change your man is guaranteed to transmogrify you something much more akin to his mother than his wife. And then he will turn into a bastardized version of your son. Tell your man he needs to eat more vegetables, and as sure as the day is long he’ll start sneaking pizza.
Yech.
Life’s too short. You want a man, not a boy. Successful relationships are built on mutual respect, not the kind of co-dependent, mutually dysfunctional craziness that necessarily develops whenever one person in a relationship is convinced that they know what’s best for the other.
Be prepared to take and love him as he is, or move on to someone you can.
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I've obviously had to summarize alot of information in the interest of time. We knew each other for about a year, then lived together for over a year in a smaller house before moving to a larger house. On the surface we appeared to have the same value systems. He was not forthcoming about the fact he does not believe in God. I learned this when I hung a painting of the Last Supper my ailing mother gave me as an inheritance before she passes on, when he commented I had too many symbols of Jesus hanging about the house. I can assure you, I have not overdone it.
The stressors of life began to reveal the reality as time went on. For example, he is an independent contractor. About a year into the relationship I discovered he has no life insurance and worse, no health insurance. When I approached the subject of him getting insurance to protect his income as well as preparing for the unlikely event he should become disabled or worse, his response was his cash flow could not support the additional cost of insurance and if something, like death should occur, it's not my problem because he doesn't have debt. The message here: he feels no responsibility toward me and my daughters. There are countless examples like this where things came to light over discussing future plans and life decisions. Most of it came out during the move to the new house. By the time we moved the relationship was in shambles.
Your tone indicates that you're surprised that I would learn all of these things after committing to the relationship. The truth is people, especially men, put on a front at the beginning of relationships. Who they really are does not come out until the rubber hits the road.
By the way, I didn't post a message on this board to be judged by you or anyone else. I asked a direct question that I was hoping for input on.
So let me get this straight: You didn't notice that the man you're now living with has completely different values than you do UNTIL you moved in with him? And you've moved your CHILDREN in with him, too? So now your children are living with a man who "bosses them around," and with whom you can't discuss dinner plans without fighting?
This article comes at a timely moment for me and I would appreciate other people's views. The man I am currently sharing a home with, turns out has a completely different value system than my own. What's interesting about it is that it did not appear this way in the months it took for us to get to know each other and quote-unquote, fall in love.
I am a community minded Christian woman. Come to find out, he's one step away from being an atheist. He believes he's a good person and if there is a God, he'll be welcomed into the kingdom. It's not just that he doesn't believe that bothers me, because I believe God can call him as anyone else he may, at any time. It's the way he looks at life that I cannot come to grips with. I believe in possibility; he believes in finality. I thrive on change, change frustrates him. I treat my children as people, he views them as something to be bossed around. He sees only what is in front of him and doesn't see possibilities let alone any gray in any situation. His is discompassionate, habitual, ritualistic about himself to the point it comes as selfishness.
The problem is that I no longer able to have a romantic relationship with him, yet we co-own property. We just moved into our home and I have already uprooted my children twice in the past two years.
I wish I could find a way to connect with him as a friend so that we can more or less share the domicile until perhaps one of us is ready to move on from it. The problem is compounded by the fact our relationship is so broken and we are so different that a conversation about anything deeper than our dinner menu is difficult and ultimately ends in an argument.
Perhaps I'm being unrealistic. But is it possible for two people to change their relationship from lovers to friends while living in the same household? Am I being unrealistic?
Had to pass this link on to my Daughters with the words READ and LEARN… Both of them with failed marrages Of course they didn't listen to Dad before the marriages so why listen now..
Camp away! I appreciate you comments, for sure.
I’m just going to change my screen name so I don’t have to keep re-posting to identify myself.
And I’m going restrain myself from posting for a little while. I’m am starting to camp out here.
“And why is it immature or “impossible” to assert that one of the ways you know you’re in love with someone is that nothing that person does or says ever really bothers you? That’s my actual experience”
If that’s you’re actual experience, that is absolutely wonderful! More power too you.
However, it is not the experience of all married couples or people who have been in love, and I would guess, not even the majority of them.
Disclaimer: I’ve never been in love. I’m only taking a “straw pole” of the people I know or know of who have been in love and/or married
But I do know that members of my family really bother me on occasion -and I bother them. And I love them, in a differant way of course, and consider myself very blessed to be in the family I’m in.
I believe that in the majority of close family relationships, there will always be times when you try to change each other. “Nagging” isn’t always such a bad thing – it’s inevitable, in my opinion.
(If you define nagging as a simple “You are doing this thing wrong and need to change.” When you get belligerant about it is a differant matter.)
We are human beings, we all need to be put in our place on occasion.
“He who hates correction is stupid”
“Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you”
(I know I’m stepping toes here, and they are attached to my own feet. I don’t much like to be corrected either.)
However, you need to accept that once you have given your thoughtful opinion about the other person’s behavior, they have free will and can do as the choose. Unless you are in a position of authority over them, it’s between them and God.
If you still think they need to change, pray about it.
You make some really neat points. BUT— Two of which seem abit out there — immature or impossible:
“And one of the ways you know you’re in love with someone is that nothing that person does or says ever really bothers you at all.”
Are you nuts? =D
“And love is never having to say you’re sorry.”
Same question =D
There’s only one person who always respected everyone perfectly and never made mistakes. The rest of us get to learn the grace of accepting and forgiving each other while we’re here.
Trisha, MFT
“If you think you’re in love with someone, you’re not. When you’re in love with someone, you know it. And one of the ways you know you’re in love with someone is that nothing that person does or says ever really bothers you at all.”
I love that. Thanks for sharing such an illuminating reality that is so often ignored in our society today. Now I can see things differently and I understand a bit more about real love.
~Jessie
I said love means never having to say that THEY'RE sorry. See? Joke.
And why is it immature or "impossible" to assert that one of the ways you know you’re in love with someone is that nothing that person does or says ever really bothers you? That's my actual experience. And I KNOW it's my wife, because .. that's the way she says it is for her. The whole thought, of course, hinges on the word "really."
Jessie: Thank you! That's a really sweet sentiment.
Carol: Nice thoughts. BIG thoughts!
so it stems from motherhood? and we girls saw it from our moms and that’s the role we instinctively take on?
hmm. that sounds logical to me.
thanks for sharing that.
I have really enjoyed reading everyone’s comments. I too came here from the Crosswalk Page and this was what I needed. I recently went through a divorce after 12 years and struggle with not making the same mistakes again, trying to change someone (a man) who can’t be changed unless he within his heart wants to. I’ve come to learn, self realization helps determine the nature in which you view others, male or female, to help you understand the manner in which we must accept each other, imperfect, but striving for perfection in Christ. This is my first time here also and I have really enjoyed this type of “therapy” to help work thru some of my issues. Looking forward to more articles. Be Blessed.
Yeah, this is really perfectly put and thought out. You know, though, I think ALL people suffer from a messianic complex: everyone ALWAYS knows what’s best for everyone else in the universe, no? But you know where I think the whole female side of the “I’ll Fix You By Telling You What To Do” thing (as well as the male’s response to that, which is, “Oh, cool; now that you’re my mommy, I’ll be your kid”) thing comes from? In the simple phenomenon of motherhood.
Women, as mothers, Know All (since, relatively speaking and as far as their children are concerned, they really DO) and are forever (as they must) Laying Down The Law.
That’s what girls learn their role is. Just as boys learn it’s their role relative to women to … be boys, forever.
All of which sounds, I fear, too harsh–and is certainly too simplistic. But, you know, at its core, that’s so much of what’s so obviously happening in so many relationships. And it’s not really anyone’s fault. People just …do what they know, basically.
i saw this article of yours in Crosswalk. I was relieved to finally hear something from a guy’s perspective. I basically had known all along that we just can’t change the man in our lives, that’s the Holy Spirit’s work. I guess some of us women (emphasis on some) just have this messianic complex, the “i’m here to help you change for the better” syndrome. i know i do. unfortunately, we can’t. but i do believe in the power of prayer. the most effective battle position for most relationship problems, i realized, is on our knees, in prayer. that’s where God starts changing the people we’re praying for, after He’s changed us too, so that we’re no longer so critical of every single thing we don’t like about them.
You know, you just never know… It’s been great, though. People have been really leaving some wonderful testimonies about their lives and experiences. Plus, what’s more interesting to any of us than the warp and woof our relationships?
John – You poor guy…Didn’t think you’re article was gonna cause such a commotion, huh..?..:-)…Excellent writing and now I look forward to looking at your blog every day.
GAIL: NICE! What a great story. Sad to read of your wonderful husband being away from us now; surely, he is now happily awaiting the blessed time when the two of you will again be joined.
GLENN: I like this little thing you’ve said here. Very nice. Thank you.
KERRI: Sounds like you guys have worked out a sane, helpful way of dealing with the kinds of everyday craziness that always pops up in relationships. Yay.
MEYMS: “I guess I’ll hang out here always” is my new favorite phrase. I love it. THANK YOU!!
John: It goes both ways!
Being a women married to my high school sweetheart at 17 and divorced 7 years and two children later gave me a since of what not to do and that was not to be what he wanted me to be; but, to be me and if he didn’t like it, then that was his problem as you mentioned in your writing. My X was so unhappy, lonely and bored being worshiped by his wife that he had to see if the grass was greener or more exciting on the other side with someone else.
Then the Lord gave me a wonderful man and father for my children for twenty five years. I lived the fairy tale with my second husband. It was like a competition at times to see who could make who happier which only led to more happiness. My husband let me be me and supported me in anything I tried to do even if I failed and ditto with his dreams. I could have lived in a tent and ate beans for the rest of my life with him. If you can love and accept everything about a person, that’s what happen to me. Just being with him made me complete (we were one). I thank the Lord he gave me this wonderful man for 25 years. He is with the Lord today.
I agree values have to be the same to make a marriage work; and putting things into perspective and communication is paramont. Ok, I did change. I learned to squeeze the toothpaste from the bottom!
Gail
i ‘m a man that knows he loves the woman that god put in his life.And very true she didn’t change me i chose to change and change is some times scary but when it’s done far all parties invoved and far the betterment of the person that is changing then good and better things are going to happen and god will honor that change.
Sandra, my 2 cents–you’re having a hard time because your ex treated you in a horribly hurtful way. Twice. Of course it’s a painful time. Kudos to you for doing the hard work of therapy…although in my experience the healing never comes ‘quickly.’ BUT I’ve also found the deepening of my relationship with God to be well worth the time spent remaining under the pain to let the process/God do their thing.
As a layman, I suggest you sever all contact with your ex. Nicely, if you prefer. He’s telling you one thing with his words and another with his actions…not good when you’re trying to figure things out. Or ever. And call in reinforcements you can be vulnerable with (family, close friends) to support you through this. Don’t be fooled–it’s hard work and it will probably take a good amount of time to sort things out.
And have a little bit of ice cream every so often. Not a lot; just a little bit.
Oh John…I agreed with most everything except the part about when you’re in love then nothing the person says or does ever bothers you. Um, not in my experience. My husband and I drive each other crazy on a regular basis. I have learned, however, that while I’m ‘allowed’ to make requests, he is ‘allowed’ to respond in whatever way he chooses. So the whole don’t-try-to-change-him thing: yeah, totally.
Cool. Do. How fun!
I totally love this article and I agree too.
This is my first time in this blog and I’m already loving it. A friend gave me this link. I guess I’ll hang out here always 
You hit the nail on the head about change. Christ changes people and not to suit another, but to bring them to a greater holiness and peace. Many do not understand that the things that bother them are issues with them, not the other person.
I do think that a lot of women have control issues which is part of the curse. Perhaps many look for a man that provides security then after securing him to them, they set about trying to make him into the husband they wanted all along, but were too selfish to be honest.
Marry the person you want and want forever, not the person you think is putty in your hands. A wife cannot submit to her husband if she’s trying to change him. That’s control.
We have to become emotionally healthy and spiritually mature before we truly understand relationship with another. Many are into conditional love where as Christ showed us unconditional love. Doesn’t matter what we do, He still loves us. That is shown in how He doesn’t force us to change or rises in anger against us. He doesn’t yell and scream at us when we mess up, nor does He try to manipulate to get His way. Instead He gently, quietly leads, letting us gain wisdom in His teachings, His love, and the encounters we find ourselves in.
Brothers and sisters, if you have a problem with someone, you’ve got the problem. You can’t cause anger or anything else in me. It’s mine to do with it. Cain’s blame says the other person is responsible for how I feel. Someone can yell obscenities at me. Doesn’t mean I have to react or have cause to react. It just means they’re yelling. Me? I’m still living in God’s peace and praying for them. It’s not a false outward peace, but a true peace. Ask him for it.
Blessings
John,
Maybe you could devote a portion of your site occassionally to these realtionship questions. Could I make a request though.?
If you are honest, and are able to speak the truth in love,consider yourself and are a man who …” swears to his own hurt and does not change”…. Psalm 15: 4 then I would encourage you to try.
There are many many christians who do things God’s way and are still waiting because of it and there are many who havn’t. We are sexual beings it is true and it is better to marry than to burn. But if that issue is screaming louder than the fact he rides a motorcycle you better get over it and if it causes problems later on, to bad. It was your choice. If sexual drive is more important than compatability…..oh well… sigh. Just keep married people like that away from the singles because we don’t need to hear it. We don’t want to end up like them.
Wow! Two angry responses–at ONCE?
Are you guys really the same person? C’mon. Fess up.
No, but … um … I never said the things you guys seem to be reacting against. So I’m kind of .. stuck for a response. Of course I don’t think all women are “looking” to change a man; that’s not what I said. And of course I don’t think a woman has to be married to be happy. I mean … no. I really don’t think that. And Alison: I actually don’t HAVE you on any mailing list of mine. I believe you’re meaning to tell CROSSWALK to take you off their mailing list. Maybe you could … sort of tell them that directly? Because I’m afraid I actually don’t have a way to communicate that to them. Sorry!
What a condescending article. To assume that all women are looking to change a man. That we want to mother them. That women are so desperate to marry we will grab onto any man and assume we can make him into something other than what he is.
I assume that you are also someone who believes that every woman on earth is only happy when she is married. Well you know what there are a lot of women out there you are doing just find on our own. Lets just keep up the tried old image that all women nag, that we live to shop and are only happy with children and a man on our arm.That we only care about kids, clothes and getting an MRS Degree.
Tell me something why are all the articles written on this site written by married people? For a site which calls itself Christian singles it seem to have one aim, get everyone married and make sure they feel that being single is a negative, unchristian state.
Thanks but no thanks there are other much better sites out there. Like Christianity Today’s single site. Which is actually written by of all things a single person. Please remove me from the mailing list.
Hi John,
“Love means never having to say they’re sorry” only if you live by the bible writen by the Hollywood. In general I agree that men/people can’t be changed. They have to see their need and want to change.
Yet your article left me feeling as though you are saying it is ok for a man to be inconsiderate. Instead of men just taking an attitude about a woman who has a strong opinion about something. Maybe he should talk to her about it and try to discover why she feels the way she does. Maybe someone close to her died in a motercycle accident. A little honest communication might go along way rather than trying to justify deception. If he is really a man, he will have the guts to stand up to her and tell her the truth about his feelings rather than wimp out and lie to her about the issue. God will not hold her accountable for his lie. “She Nagged” won’t be a good enough excuse when facing God.
I agree that women should not nag. It is not helpful or Godly, framkly it tears down communication. But the bible says every one should look at the needs of others before the needs of them self. Might I suggest that men check their prideful attitude with God first, before he tells his girl friend that a biker dude is just who he is and she can deal with it or get out.
Whoa! There’s a lot of great stuff here! Sorry I was slow getting to it (I’ve got this whole honkin’ BOOK due in, like, three weeks. So. Busy with that), but I had no idea so many people would have such honest, profound, and insightful things to SAY about relationships.
Do you know that (like, I would guess, seventeen zillion other people alive right now) I’ve always wanted to run a Love Advice column? I USED to actually, for this local magazine I used to write for, and I LOVED it. People would write me in their Love Problems, and I was always, like, “Ditch him. He’s a loser. Guy’s LOVE to never QUITE commit to a girl,” or whatever. I just … loved that work.
This comment thread has SO reawakened my desire to do that again. If anyone out there is reading this, do you think that’s something anyone BUT me would ever want to do? Think anyone would actually ASK me any questions? Think I should put on my blog, like, “Have a love question or problem? ASK (not actually accredited) DR. JOHN for the best advice he has at the moment he reads and answers your letter!”
Maybe I should start a whole other BLOG, just for that. I would so love that.
I so disagree with your statement that if you really love someone nothing they say or do really bothers you. What world do you live in? Honestly, remember you said no one is perfect. Case in point, I love my children beyond belief. But they do lots of things that bother me. I have many friends that I love dearly, and trust me they do things that bother me. Yes, most of the things they do are not damaging to their character…but still God created us to be different, with different thoughts and opinions.
I loved my ex-husband even when he did character damage and when he got on my last nerve.
So, I do agree that no one can change us male or female. It is truly up to us to allow God to work in and through us to change.
Awesome article John…Sent it a few female friends of mine..One thought it was great, the other I’m still waiting on..
But I must say that guys must play by the same rules in not trying to change women too…Boy did I just open a can of worms…;-)
Sandra Johnson – I think you have to end that relationship…Just doesn’t seem like he’s serious about you, nor does it seems he knows what he wants.. He basically has one foot out the door and one foot on a banana peel. Don’t look back and preservere..
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