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	<title>Comments on: Where Were You When You First Thought Going To War In Iraq Was A Good Idea?</title>
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	<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/</link>
	<description>Trying God&#039;s patience since 1958</description>
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		<title>By: Andy Christensen</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3282</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3282</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t see CP&#039;s testimony on TV but I read about it on the internet that night. I was convinced they had bad stuff. I had started to have serious doubts when the inspectors weren&#039;t finding anything, but Powell convinced me they were hiding stuff, not cooperating. 
 
I think Bush believed his decision was right; he was mistaken as was virtually everyone on the planet about whether bad stuff was there. (Here is my shameless plug for myself: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldmonitor.info/chron/sep2002.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.worldmonitor.info/chron/sep2002.html&lt;/a&gt; http://www.worldmonitor.info/chron/oct2004.html) 
 
I was in favor of containment of Iraq from day 1. After 9/11 I thought we should concentrate on al Qaeda; when I started hearing rumblings in early 2002 about going after Saddam I was incredulous that we would go off on that tangent (no offense to those who disagree :)) 
 
Why contain him if we believed he had bad stuff? Because as Christians we should trust God and only resort to war when we have no choice. War plays into the enemy&#039;s hands, whipping up more hatred between us and other nations. As someone else said, fear is not a good motivation for making decisions. Perfect love drives out fear. Being in a situation where we could strike out of fear, and not doing so, but rather being restrained to the utmost, tolerating a greater degree of risk, and loving and praying for our enemies is a way for us to vividly demonstrate to the world that there is a God and that we know him. &quot;But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?&quot; (Matthew 5:43-48) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#039;t see CP&#039;s testimony on TV but I read about it on the internet that night. I was convinced they had bad stuff. I had started to have serious doubts when the inspectors weren&#039;t finding anything, but Powell convinced me they were hiding stuff, not cooperating.</p>
<p>I think Bush believed his decision was right; he was mistaken as was virtually everyone on the planet about whether bad stuff was there. (Here is my shameless plug for myself: <a href="http://www.worldmonitor.info/chron/sep2002.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.worldmonitor.info/chron/sep2002.html</a> <a href="http://www.worldmonitor.info/chron/oct2004.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.worldmonitor.info/chron/oct2004.html</a>)</p>
<p>I was in favor of containment of Iraq from day 1. After 9/11 I thought we should concentrate on al Qaeda; when I started hearing rumblings in early 2002 about going after Saddam I was incredulous that we would go off on that tangent (no offense to those who disagree <img src='http://johnshore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>Why contain him if we believed he had bad stuff? Because as Christians we should trust God and only resort to war when we have no choice. War plays into the enemy&#039;s hands, whipping up more hatred between us and other nations. As someone else said, fear is not a good motivation for making decisions. Perfect love drives out fear. Being in a situation where we could strike out of fear, and not doing so, but rather being restrained to the utmost, tolerating a greater degree of risk, and loving and praying for our enemies is a way for us to vividly demonstrate to the world that there is a God and that we know him. &quot;But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?&quot; (Matthew 5:43-48)</p>
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		<title>By: John Shore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3185</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3185</guid>
		<description>You thought it was a mistake? That&#039;s cool. There&#039;s no moral failing in a mistake. It would be better, for sure, if Powell, Bush, Cheney, et al., were mistaken, rather than purposefully and intentionally lying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You thought it was a mistake? That&#8217;s cool. There&#8217;s no moral failing in a mistake. It would be better, for sure, if Powell, Bush, Cheney, et al., were mistaken, rather than purposefully and intentionally lying.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bennett</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3184</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3184</guid>
		<description>Ironically, for me it was the same day watching the same program.  Living in North Carolina at the time, most people were already pro-war, it was my senior year in high school and I was working in the library at the time. 
 
I, too, trusted Colin Powell--he did make a convincing case, I remember the taped recordings of Iraqi government officials and the mobile-chem labs they had satellite intelligence on.  I remember thinking that the time between that UN meeting and when the bombing actually began was way too long a time, I was worried about Saddam smuggling the mobile chem-labs out of the country. 
 
Only much later, after I had moved away from North Carolina and started to develop my own life-philosophy and begin working on my own ideas did I begin to think we had committed a horrible mistake. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically, for me it was the same day watching the same program.  Living in North Carolina at the time, most people were already pro-war, it was my senior year in high school and I was working in the library at the time.</p>
<p>I, too, trusted Colin Powell&#8211;he did make a convincing case, I remember the taped recordings of Iraqi government officials and the mobile-chem labs they had satellite intelligence on.  I remember thinking that the time between that UN meeting and when the bombing actually began was way too long a time, I was worried about Saddam smuggling the mobile chem-labs out of the country.</p>
<p>Only much later, after I had moved away from North Carolina and started to develop my own life-philosophy and begin working on my own ideas did I begin to think we had committed a horrible mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: wickle</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3110</link>
		<dc:creator>wickle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3110</guid>
		<description>John, you&#039;re right. I don&#039;t think that any sane person would be pro-war. Choosing war as an alternative to being slaughtered is one thing, and makes sense. But actually wanting a war is pretty clearly a mark of insanity. Even my father, the retired B-52 pilot (3 tours in Vietnam, 2 of them is those aforementioned B-52&#039;s), agrees that war is a terrible thing. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, you&#039;re right. I don&#039;t think that any sane person would be pro-war. Choosing war as an alternative to being slaughtered is one thing, and makes sense. But actually wanting a war is pretty clearly a mark of insanity. Even my father, the retired B-52 pilot (3 tours in Vietnam, 2 of them is those aforementioned B-52&#039;s), agrees that war is a terrible thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Sabina</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3108</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3108</guid>
		<description>I never thought we should go to war either. My brother survived two tours and my niece is serving now. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never thought we should go to war either. My brother survived two tours and my niece is serving now.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3098</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3098</guid>
		<description>Anita: I think all sane people are pacifists. I think EVERYONE&#039;S a pacifist until someone punches them or someone they love in the mouth. I think the reason Powell&#039;s testimony made it seem like we should invade was specifically because he made it sound like untold thousands of innocents would be killed, by Hussein, if we didn&#039;t stop him from doing that. No one wants to see innocent people killed; most everyone will fight if necessary to stop that from happening. That&#039;s what made the whole build-up to the war so atrocious: It exploited the best part of us. 
 
Christian: Great answer! Thanks for it. 
 
To ... babble further: I was never &quot;for&quot; the war. What sane person is ever FOR war? I just thought Powell&#039;s case that Hussein was going to go Hitler was so compelling that after his testimony, for the first time I found myself thinking that maybe we should forcibly stop Hussein. If history teaches us anything, it&#039;s that we should never wait to see what&#039;ll happen next once a madman with power has made his intentions clear. Powell told us that Hussein was a madman with power intent on aggression. What else CAN you do in a case like that but fight. We&#039;re the big, strong kid on the playground. It&#039;s up to us to make sure the littler kids are protected. 
 
I&#039;m not anti- or pro- war. I&#039;m anti or pro CAUSE--which of course depends on the cause in question. Some things are worth fighting for. Some aren&#039;t. Fighting, as Powell told us we would be, so that Hussein wouldn&#039;t mustard gas or bomb thousands of innocent people seemed to me like something worth fighting for. Fighting so that Bush and Cheney can think they have fourteen-inch wangs isn&#039;t. (Not that THAT&#039;S why we&#039;re in Iraq, or anything. I&#039;m just saying that if that if that was why we were in Iraq, it wouldn&#039;t be a good enough reason. But I know we&#039;re in Iraq for a whole bunch of reasons.) 
 
Sam: Honestly, what prompted the posting was that I was listening to Crosy, Still, Nash and Young&#039;s album, &quot;So Far.&quot; And I kept thinking, Whatever happened to the anti-war movement? When it became clear that the entire reason we were told we had to go to war was wrong, I thought people would pour into the streets, that everyone, everywhere, would demand that we pull out of Iraq. 
 
But, of course, we can&#039;t. Now everyone knows that pulling out of Iraq would cause more violence than we cause by being there. Now all we can do is wait, and watch, and wonder what in God&#039;s name happened. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anita: I think all sane people are pacifists. I think EVERYONE&#039;S a pacifist until someone punches them or someone they love in the mouth. I think the reason Powell&#039;s testimony made it seem like we should invade was specifically because he made it sound like untold thousands of innocents would be killed, by Hussein, if we didn&#039;t stop him from doing that. No one wants to see innocent people killed; most everyone will fight if necessary to stop that from happening. That&#039;s what made the whole build-up to the war so atrocious: It exploited the best part of us.</p>
<p>Christian: Great answer! Thanks for it.</p>
<p>To &#8230; babble further: I was never &quot;for&quot; the war. What sane person is ever FOR war? I just thought Powell&#039;s case that Hussein was going to go Hitler was so compelling that after his testimony, for the first time I found myself thinking that maybe we should forcibly stop Hussein. If history teaches us anything, it&#039;s that we should never wait to see what&#039;ll happen next once a madman with power has made his intentions clear. Powell told us that Hussein was a madman with power intent on aggression. What else CAN you do in a case like that but fight. We&#039;re the big, strong kid on the playground. It&#039;s up to us to make sure the littler kids are protected.</p>
<p>I&#039;m not anti- or pro- war. I&#039;m anti or pro CAUSE&#8211;which of course depends on the cause in question. Some things are worth fighting for. Some aren&#039;t. Fighting, as Powell told us we would be, so that Hussein wouldn&#039;t mustard gas or bomb thousands of innocent people seemed to me like something worth fighting for. Fighting so that Bush and Cheney can think they have fourteen-inch wangs isn&#039;t. (Not that THAT&#039;S why we&#039;re in Iraq, or anything. I&#039;m just saying that if that if that was why we were in Iraq, it wouldn&#039;t be a good enough reason. But I know we&#039;re in Iraq for a whole bunch of reasons.)</p>
<p>Sam: Honestly, what prompted the posting was that I was listening to Crosy, Still, Nash and Young&#039;s album, &quot;So Far.&quot; And I kept thinking, Whatever happened to the anti-war movement? When it became clear that the entire reason we were told we had to go to war was wrong, I thought people would pour into the streets, that everyone, everywhere, would demand that we pull out of Iraq.</p>
<p>But, of course, we can&#039;t. Now everyone knows that pulling out of Iraq would cause more violence than we cause by being there. Now all we can do is wait, and watch, and wonder what in God&#039;s name happened.</p>
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		<title>By: anita</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3097</link>
		<dc:creator>anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3097</guid>
		<description>I appreciate your post on this topic John and your honesty. I never supported the war. Not because I&#039;m a pacifist (I make exceptions in rush-hour traffic) though I am. Not because I was suspicious of all the &#039;evidence&#039; related to weapons of mass destruction, though I was. I was simply opposed from the start because following the events of 911 I couldn&#039;t bear the thought of more innocent men, women, and children dying anywhere in the world for no good reason . .and they have. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your post on this topic John and your honesty. I never supported the war. Not because I&#039;m a pacifist (I make exceptions in rush-hour traffic) though I am. Not because I was suspicious of all the &#039;evidence&#039; related to weapons of mass destruction, though I was. I was simply opposed from the start because following the events of 911 I couldn&#039;t bear the thought of more innocent men, women, and children dying anywhere in the world for no good reason . .and they have.</p>
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		<title>By: samwrites2</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3096</link>
		<dc:creator>samwrites2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3096</guid>
		<description>Yeah Christian. 
I back your view that war is bad and their are atrocities on both sides, but unlike you I held a different view until recently. I didn&#039;t quite get the value of every life and the God cares for each of us - even an Al Queda trying to kill me or my family. 
When I was in the military I liked to repeat the motto of &quot;Kill &#039;em all and let God sort them out.&quot; This came just after the 1983 Marine barracks bombing in Beirut. 
The key point to John&#039;s blog is that Colin Powell convinced quite a few people that Saddam Hussein was a real threat to we Americans, our allies and our national interests. 
With that perceived threat, as to a murderous terrorist, many were quick to respond with &quot;hey, we should defend ourselves.&quot; 
The key response I had after reading this blog entry was should be 1) should we be so quick to rush to judgment? Shouldn&#039;t we count the cost of any action including inaction? and 2) should we use our critical thinking skills to evaluate whatever we are told no matter how credible we believe the source to be? This would help us to better evaluate the cost. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Christian.</p>
<p>I back your view that war is bad and their are atrocities on both sides, but unlike you I held a different view until recently. I didn&#039;t quite get the value of every life and the God cares for each of us &#8211; even an Al Queda trying to kill me or my family.</p>
<p>When I was in the military I liked to repeat the motto of &quot;Kill &#039;em all and let God sort them out.&quot; This came just after the 1983 Marine barracks bombing in Beirut.</p>
<p>The key point to John&#039;s blog is that Colin Powell convinced quite a few people that Saddam Hussein was a real threat to we Americans, our allies and our national interests.</p>
<p>With that perceived threat, as to a murderous terrorist, many were quick to respond with &quot;hey, we should defend ourselves.&quot;</p>
<p>The key response I had after reading this blog entry was should be 1) should we be so quick to rush to judgment? Shouldn&#039;t we count the cost of any action including inaction? and 2) should we use our critical thinking skills to evaluate whatever we are told no matter how credible we believe the source to be? This would help us to better evaluate the cost.</p>
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		<title>By: Christian</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3095</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3095</guid>
		<description>I  was for the war from day one. I was even for it before 9/11 (under the banner of &quot;unfinished business&quot;). As a Monday morning quarterback I can see it was a mistake but Afghanastan still makes some sort of sense. I wonder if we were winning decisively in Iran if we might feel differently. I wonder what our spin would be on WWII or Korea if we had lost (hey, in Korea we really didn&#039;t win did we?). 
 
But that was just me the secularized American &quot;Christian&quot; citizen talking. I hadn&#039;t &#039;converted&#039; yet when we had begun the offensive. Even so, I probably would&#039;ve been supportive in a more Religious Right style of patriotism. But now I think it is a shame. This conflict is one of a continuing series of battles that began before World War I. During WWII the Allies tore these countries apart, ravaging their holy cities and towns and essentially thought nothing more of them than cattle. We destroyed their second holiest city, Medina. And their only offense? They had been colonized.  Is there any wonder that so many despise us? 
 
What if we would try Ghandi&#039;s approach to dealing with our adversaries?  Would we spend any more money? Could there be any greater loss of life? Why is it that Christians have yet to seize the moral high ground? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  was for the war from day one. I was even for it before 9/11 (under the banner of &quot;unfinished business&quot;). As a Monday morning quarterback I can see it was a mistake but Afghanastan still makes some sort of sense. I wonder if we were winning decisively in Iran if we might feel differently. I wonder what our spin would be on WWII or Korea if we had lost (hey, in Korea we really didn&#039;t win did we?).</p>
<p>But that was just me the secularized American &quot;Christian&quot; citizen talking. I hadn&#039;t &#039;converted&#039; yet when we had begun the offensive. Even so, I probably would&#039;ve been supportive in a more Religious Right style of patriotism. But now I think it is a shame. This conflict is one of a continuing series of battles that began before World War I. During WWII the Allies tore these countries apart, ravaging their holy cities and towns and essentially thought nothing more of them than cattle. We destroyed their second holiest city, Medina. And their only offense? They had been colonized.  Is there any wonder that so many despise us?</p>
<p>What if we would try Ghandi&#039;s approach to dealing with our adversaries?  Would we spend any more money? Could there be any greater loss of life? Why is it that Christians have yet to seize the moral high ground?</p>
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		<title>By: dsilkotch</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-3092</link>
		<dc:creator>dsilkotch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/where-were-you-when-you-first-thought-going-to-war-in-iraq-was-a-good-idea/#comment-3092</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true, I never watched CP&#039;s presentation.  But to those of us who follow the big-picture ebb and flow of historical patterns, as well as those of us with a basic grasp of cultural relationships and human nature, this attack on Iraq was painfully obvious as 1. A diversionary tactic, 2. Bush&#039;s personal vendetta against what he saw as his father&#039;s biggest failure (letting Hussein slip away), and 3. A big fat waste of lives and resources with an impossible goal.  You can&#039;t &quot;end terror&quot; by attacking people.  All you accomplish that way is to make yourself look like the biggest, most terrifying threat of all, so that when you have finally used up too much of your lives and resources, other countries that see themselves as future targets will be lining up to take you down before you have a chance to recover. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s true, I never watched CP&#039;s presentation.  But to those of us who follow the big-picture ebb and flow of historical patterns, as well as those of us with a basic grasp of cultural relationships and human nature, this attack on Iraq was painfully obvious as 1. A diversionary tactic, 2. Bush&#039;s personal vendetta against what he saw as his father&#039;s biggest failure (letting Hussein slip away), and 3. A big fat waste of lives and resources with an impossible goal.  You can&#039;t &quot;end terror&quot; by attacking people.  All you accomplish that way is to make yourself look like the biggest, most terrifying threat of all, so that when you have finally used up too much of your lives and resources, other countries that see themselves as future targets will be lining up to take you down before you have a chance to recover.</p>
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