Top 10 Ways Christians (Including Me) Tend to Fail

by John Shore on January 28, 2008 · 75 comments

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John Shore January 10, 2009 at 5:29 am

RMcMillan: So that's twice, in your opening sentences, that you used the word "perverse." Fixate much?

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R McMillan January 10, 2009 at 5:06 am

Candace, who are you to step in? This man has publicly presented a perverse argument regarding a tenet of the Christian Faith and you are justifying him. Your words are also perverse and reminiscent of a sycophant or a shill. Moreover they're just plain ignorant. As for my relationship with God, I've had one for several years but not until recently did I start acting accordingly. Also, I'm quite aware of the virtue of taking correction from the brethren but your not qualified to say anything here. Moreover, as for the atheist comment, I debate atheists regularly with humility and sometimes a hard edge but it's always backed with scripture. This is something you clearly neglect to do, relying more on your own gut feelings and opinion. Bottom line, you haven't enlightened anyone with your glib comments but darkened an otherwise valid admonition. Don't condone sin in any way. I suggest that the author retract or rewrite his comments regarding homosexuals because they are not biblical and neither is your support of him.

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Candace January 8, 2009 at 3:07 pm

Casey,I actually reconsidered the atheist thing, but there was no way to edit my post!

Not that the comparison I made doesn't apply in some cases.

BUT when I think about how I would have come off, had I stumbled across this blog in my own non-believing days, I am faced with the reality that (for the most part) you heathens are soooooooooo much more polite and civil than I would have been (and indeed, than I WAS. Just not in the context of John's blog).

And I can also recall (with chagrin) times when, newly Christian, I acted a bit too much for comfort like R McMillan. My hubris (I pray) has been tempered with increasing maturity. I am hopeful his will as well.

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casey January 8, 2009 at 1:41 pm

here here Candace! (not counting the atheist thing…. but I suppose we are guilty too)

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Candace January 8, 2009 at 1:07 pm

R McMillan, I am not John, but I hope he'll forgive me if I step in here a moment …

As a short-time Christian (by your own description), mightn't a bit of humility on your part be called for here? Take out the religious vocabulary and your tone is alarmingly akin to a lot of the atheists who come in here and call John to task or dismiss the lot of us as a bunch of idiots.

"I'm going to give you credit .. "?? "I detect a little leaven …" ?? "How dare you .."??? Or the most annoying of the bunch, "Shame on you …"???

I say this with love: Personally, I can't envision Christ conducting Himself as you have here with another brother. That Bible you've freshly engaged with is a good way to examine and adjust one's OWN behavior. You may wish to consider that. As well as to walk the walk a while longer before reproving others.

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R McMillan January 8, 2009 at 11:56 am

I’m going to give you a lot more credit for “works” and possibly “faith”, however, you seem to be overreaching with the gay comments. Even a short time Christian like myself understands the following admonition from Christ, “… be on your gaurd against the yeast of the Pharasees and Sadducees” (Mathew 16:6, NIV). I detect a little leaven in your words. Moreover, how dare you try to lull Christians into a sense of apathy towards this or any sin. Keep in mind, “…Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law…” (Mathew 5:18, KJV); so until God puts a moratorium on sodomy you shouldn’t either. Also, can you envision Christ giving that advice? I cannot. What I can envision is Christ confronting this sin(all sins for that matter) everytime it raises its ugly head and not “…just give it a rest for a while…”. Since when does Christ turn a deaf ear or a blind eye to sin? Shame on you!

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John Shore April 29, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Thanks, Lavrai, for stopping by and commenting. And good point you've made here, of course. Beautiful.

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lavrai April 28, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Thank you, and very well put. I, personally, need to keep numbers 2 & 3 in mind :) If none of us will ever be perfect until the LORD's return and earthly rule, then that must mean we must constantly be working to remain in HIS will.

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Skerrib February 13, 2008 at 2:46 am

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but I had a thought over the past few days…

John at one point (somewhere…maybe in another thread) you mentioned something to the effect of the early church perhaps proselytizing more 'aggressively' than we need to today. As you say in "I'm OK…" if anyone here in America wants to know more about God and/or Christianity, there are plenty of people and/or places they can get that information.

And I totally agree about us not having to be aggressive with our friends, but I'm not sure the early church had to be all that aggressive either. I wonder if they went out and said something like "If you want to know about Jesus, meet us at such & such a time," and whoever wanted to would show up. Whoever didn't–I don't think they necessarily went back to try to convince them.

I hear time & time again from missionaries…especially in 3rd world-ish countries…that they might go around in the morning to villages and say "church is at such & such a time," and people just show up because there's a hunger to know more about God. I do know a couple of the in-your-face types, but most are more mellow in their approach.

Anyway, my point is that, even in the first days of Christianity, I think the disciples more or less said "Hey, if you want to know more about Jesus, lemme know," rather than the crazy-aggressive approach many evangelicals take today. Sorta like "hey, your house is on fire." But then it's up to them to pursue it further if they want.

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Andy February 13, 2008 at 2:03 am

I agree with everything except letting God worry about non-Christians. I wouldn't negelect to tell my neighbor his house was on fire just because it would be hard to get him to believe me. Or because he might think I was crazy. Of course, that's an easy thing to convince someone of. But Jesus didn't say it would be easy. He said to just do it. In fact, Mt 28:19-20 is such an important thing he said that we call it the Great Commission. I don't like worrying about non-Christians, but I must.

I also was saved in spite of Christians' efforts — at least obnoxious Christians' efforts, but many other gentle, loving ones planted many a seed before I met the right woman who introduced me to the Right Man.

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cordieb February 4, 2008 at 7:42 am

God Bless. Thanks for this. As a Christian, I believe to do unto others as you would have others do unto you; and the Commandment given by Christ, love your brother as you would love yourself, says it all. We are all guilty of falling short of this. We should be reminded when we constantly throw food away after dinner time, when we fail to acknowledge the poor, when we gossip, when we cheat, when we judge, when we limit God's abilities . . . and the list goes on and on.

"I think maybe we should spend more time “just” living as Christians, and letting God worry about the non-Christians." You are so right. Certainly our God knows all; and knows the hearts of all. If He created non Christians, who am I to say it's wrong? . . That God's creation is wrong? Gonna add you to my blogroll for sure. Pass the love on Brother.

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melcartera February 1, 2008 at 9:33 pm

Hi, John.

I totally agree with your point #1. However, and I hope you don’t mind my saying so, I think “a rich Christian is an oxymoron” might be a bit unfair to rich Christians. I do know, and my wife and I have been personally tremendously blessed by, people who are rich and whom we sincerely believe are Christians. One of our friends is a Christian who owns companies and commercial buildings here in the Philippines, and he has actually set up businesses with the sole purpose of supporting churches and Christian organizations, seminaries, and individuals with the revenue from those businesses. God has honored his intentions and has blessed those businesses, and the man has already supported hundreds of poor Christians and has helped sponsor ministries which spread the Gospel in this country and in other Asian countries.

I doubt that “sell what you possess and give to the poor” is meant to be taken literally in terms of selling all of one’s possessions. I think it is in the same class as “if your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away…and if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away”. Otherwise we would have thousands of Christians with no eyes and hands…and penniless ;) .

I think Jesus, as always, is addressing the heart more than outward actions. Because it is possible to obey God’s commands literally, like the Pharisees, and be insufferably (and damnably) self-righteous, to think in one’s heart, “Thank you, God, that you have given me such character as to be willing to sell off all my possessions and give to the poor, and not be like that one over there who refuses to sell off his business”. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13, “I can give away all that I have, and I can have my body burned, but if I don’t have love…” Jesus is targeting the heart, not the outward behavior. And only God sees the heart, so only He can truly know if a certain rich person is indeed a Christian or not.

That said, though, it is indeed sad that so many rich people, including people who identify themselves as Christians, who seem to be so focused on acquiring and enjoying luxuries and are completely blind to the poverty around them. As I pointed out last year in my posts The Simple Life and This is OBSCENE!, in a world where 19.7 percent of the population of Europe and Central Asia, 24.5 percent of the population of Latin America, and 31.1 percent of the population in South Asia, live on $2 or less per day, it is sad that people obsess on the latest gadgets and being seen in the “in” spots (and somebody even dares to concoct a $25,000 sundae!).

When I was in the Netherlands, I was shocked to learn that a meal at McDonald’s cost 7-10 euros! That was equivalent to 450-650 Philippine pesos, which could feed a child for a week in the Philippines! What if we saved that money by foregoing the burger, or foregoing eating out once a week in favor of cheaper meals at home, and use the money we save in supporting children in Asia or Africa? True, this is a question for everyone, but it is a question ESPECIALLY for Christians.

So, yes, we fail at having “too much”. But I would like to suggest that the definition of “too much” is in the heart, not in the visible wealth (or even lack of it, for that matter—even an ostensibly financially poor Christian can have “too much”, if his attitude towards what he does have, vis-a-vis his attitude towards his fellowmen, is not right).

God bless you, brother! Thanks for your always-stimulating posts.

Mel

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ozatheist January 31, 2008 at 1:50 pm

John, very good points and well written, I wish I could be so eloquent and funny.

It would be a nicer world, I think, if more Christians read your list before opening their mouths.

Just one thing I have to disagree on – No 8, perhaps you should consider longer than just a week? :-)

Have you done a similar list for us atheists?

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Ingrid January 31, 2008 at 9:20 am

# 6 has me Standing on my feet Shouting AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AMEN!

You are so very right. I honestly believe if we could get that one fundamental truth into the hearts, minds, and actions of every Christian the world we be a better place. God is a gentleman folks and if he was willing to allow me room to mess up and come to him of my own steam what makes any of us think it is our duty to hogtie other people to the cross until they scream salvation?

Thank you for being one of the few voices I hear that understand religion, faith and spirituality is a choice not a hostage situation!

Amen again for good measure!

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