My wife Cat and I used to study and practice Zen. One morning she and I were walking to our car after a night spent sitting zazen at a Zen center with a dozen or so other would-be Buddhas. (Zazen is Zen meditation: You sit; you close your eyes; you try to disconnect from your thoughts; you try like crazy not to sneeze, cough or itch; you try not to panic about the fact that after about a half hour your whole lower body is so asleep you wouldn’t know it if someone harpooned your thigh.)
As we were approaching our car, we saw that a guy who had just pinned a flyer underneath our windshield wiper was now leaving a copy of the same flyer on the car parked behind ours.
The guy gave us a friendly wave. “Hi! I hope you don’t mind me leaving one of these on your car.”
I unlocked the passenger door so that Cat could get in. “No problem” I said. But apparently instead of that what he heard was, “Please come over and talk to us.”
“It’s for a nearby church,” he said. He was a youngish, fit-seeming fellow, sporting an orange baseball cap and a truly winning smile. “Calvary Chapel. Ever heard of it?”
“I haven’t,” I said. I opened Cat’s door; she silently took her seat; I closed her inside. Tucked under my arm was my zafu, the round pillow Zenners use to sit upon whilst trying to merge with The Great Nothing/Everything. The guy nodded toward it.
“You folks study Buddhism there in the center?”
“We do,” I said. “We like Zen. Been at it for a pretty long time now.”
“Oh, is that right? Do you find it helps you with your life?”
A little alarm bell went off in my head. But I kept in Friendly Conversation mode. “Actually, yeah. It’s been a really wonderful thing for both of us.”
“But you must know that it can’t give you what the Lord Jesus Christ can,” said Mr. Orange Cap. “The only way you can ever find what you’re really seeking is to open up your heart to the fact that Jesus Christ is your personal lord and savior.”
The thing about sitting zazen—especially if you’ve just done it for ten hours straight—is that it leaves you feeling like Lake Placid itself. So, in a voice filled with nothing but calm warmth, I said, “That’s great. I mean, I know that for a lot of people Christianity is perfect. We’ve chosen Zen. I’ve got a friend who’s a Hindu. My wife’s dad is Catholic. I guess everybody has to find their own way, huh?”
“But there’s only one true way, friend. And that way is through Jesus Christ.”
I walked around the front of our car to the driver’s side. “Christianity’s a really sound option, for sure.”
“It’s more than just an option. It’s the only way. Anyone who doesn’t repent of their sins and declare the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal savior is lost to the flames of eternal hell.”
I felt gathering in my stomach that tight ball I get whenever I’m wondering just how crazy someone might go on me.
With one hand on my door handle I smiled over the top of the car, and said lightly, “Well, that does sound bad. I hope that doesn’t happen to me!”
“Oh, it will. It happens to everyone who chooses any but the one true way.”
And then I made the mistake of talking too much.
“I understand that Christianity works for you,” I said. “And I think that’s outstanding. Your life must be so rich because of your faith. But must Christianity be the only way? Can’t there be other good ways for people to know and experience what you call God? Does everyone who chooses any other way but Christianity have to be wrong?”
“Hey, I don’t make the rules. You can fight against it all you want. But the fact is that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. The cost of not accepting him as your savior is the eternal damnation of your soul.”
Through the windshield I saw Cat, quietly looking straight ahead. She could hear us, of course.
I pulled open my car door. “Well, I guess I’ll just have to hope that you’re mistaken.”
“Oh, I’m not, buddy,” said the guy, raising his voice a little. “But you are. Both you and your wife are condemning yourselves in the eyes of the Lord by engaging in sinful idolatry.”
“All right; I’ll bear that in mind. There aren’t actually any idols in Zen, but I see what you’re saying.” I waved. “Thanks for sharing it. Have a good day.”
As I closed my door the guy moved around to the front of our car. He held up his hand.
“Stop what you’re doing! Let the Lord into your heart! You please the devil with your sinful ways!”
“Jesus,” murmured Catherine.
“Or one of his ambassadors, anyway,” I said. I starting the car. “I wonder if I’m gonna have to run this fool over?”
“You’re lost!” called the Christian. He demonstrated that he hadn’t lost all touch with reality, though, by stepping back onto the curb.
“Repent!” he said. “Accept the Lord! Turn your back on the devil! Rid yourself of your sin!”
I eased out of my spot and started down the street.
“Well,” said Cat. “Wasn’t that special?”
“Can you imagine being God, and looking down, and seeing that? I wonder what Jesus thinks when he sees stuff like that?”
“‘Maybe I should become a Buddhist’? Or maybe, ‘I need to get some new salespeople. People who aren’t totally rude and intrusive? People who don’t think the way to attract people to me is to scream insults at them’?”
“Or maybe he’d just go, “‘That’s it. I give up. Time for the Apocalypse.’”
That the Christian in the orange cap meant well isn’t in question. Of course he only wanted what was best for Cat and me. But he only repelled us from Christianity, because his evangelizing effort was grounded in what all such efforts must be, which is a lack of respect. By proving that he had no respect whatsoever for our belief system, he proved that he had no respect for us.
Proving that he had no respect for us proved that the evangelizer did not love us, since the best that love without respect can be is patronizing. And by not loving us, that brother utterly broke the second part of what Jesus himself called the greatest law of all: to love your neighbor as you love yourself. (See Mark 12:28-31.) Another reason he absolutely could not love us is because he drove us away from him. And you can’t love someone with whom you have no relationship at all.
That Christian purposefully, explicitly, and directly disobeyed Jesus. Shame on him. And shame on any Christian who does what he did.
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My biggest problem with aggressive proselytization isnt even that it drives people away from christianity, its that it spreads hatred. Not only is it, in many ways an expression of hatred (i see anger often coming from christians trying to convert people, more than i ever do i kindness), it also leads people to feel hate for christians. how can you not hate the cruel and naive? Im sick of trying not to hate people. It would be so much easier, if they would stop hating everyone else first.
@Michael – I agree with you on your second point; the spreading of “hatred.” However, as to the first, it is the single narrow minded attitude on the part of militant proselytizers that has done more to inspire anger in my heart to the point I stopped going to Mass more than 10 years ago. The Catholic Church I grew up in as a boy as changed significantly from my point of view. The American Church has made an “Unholy” alliance of sort with the “radical right wing of America’s ultra conservative protestant churches (of course, that could be the other way around-I’m not sure). The direct result has been that like so many other hard-line churches, the Catholic Church has grown intolerant in some ways – especially politically. And they can’t claim that that’s only in the “secular sphere!” Whatever we do or say in the world, tends to reflect our core, spiritual values [or lack thereof].
I have noticed the “inability” of hardline Christians [Modern Day Pharisees] to show respect to individuals, even when they disagree.
@Brian, I would have to say it’s the protestant churches that are the primary source of the problem, as Martins Luther’s sola fide, that is salvation by faith and faith alone, is how modern christians justify aggressive prosylitization. It is a belief held by most protestants, but it originated with Martin Luther, and is in direct conflict with the official opinion of the catholic church that mankind is redeemed by the grace of god through good works, without which faith is meaningless, and therefore nonchristians are able to reach heaven through good works.
I concur with John. I've had many encounters with scary evangelizing type Christians and with that kind of Christian, professing to believe in Jesus is never enough (never-mind any of the other religious beliefs.) With that kind of Christian, you have to believe exactly as that particular type Christian believes, using exactly the same words that type of Christian uses or else you will be hounded and harassed until you do so (or, until you get away from them–whichever happens first.)
What CordieB says about worrying about the fate of non-Christians as a child also rings a bell for me. I used to worry about my best friend's parents because they didn't believe in God.
i found this on a facebook group re. soto zen buddhism to which i belong. i have never met a zen-student-turned christian. given my own experience as zen student and former christian and history of interest in most things religious, i thought i'd reach out and ask…what commonalities do you see between zen and whatever form of christianity you practice? (btw, i was raised "culturally" catholic, became an evangelical christian in high school, dabbled in mainline protestantism–episcopal–during college and infrequently attended late-night catholic mass while in seminary. then, didn't do religion for a while till i discovered zen).
You sure can shave. And "sinful idolatry of Zen" must be a registered trade mark.
Are you kidding me, Rachel? I mean, you’re joking, yes? Of course this happened. There’s nothing even almost extraordinary about it. If you’re not a Christian, interactions like this are hardly unknown to you. It’s just … something that happens. Could have been worse, of course. Could have been Ray Comfort with his TV crew, or whatever. Anyway, yes. Typical of this sort of exchange.
please tell me that didn’t really happen…just so I can calm down a tiny bit…please?
@YCS. I can feel your comment. I am a Christian and was raised in the Baptist Church. My parents were Baptists, as were all of my family. As a child, I was afraid to ask questions about any other beliefs or doctrines. I was afraid of God too. It was actually very awful. I was baptized, afraid to tell anyone that I had any doubts. I remember faking shouts, because everyone else did it, and wondering was something wrong with me. My father, who became very religious after years of "sinful" acts, confessed to the church of all or most of his transgressions, which included the names of the married women with whom he had affairs; He also felt that God somehow punished him because he married my mother who was a divorcee, and of course that me me a bastard according to the word. But through all the religious dogma, my father truly loved me, and I only knew of these things through family telling me stories and overhearing grown folks talking. As a child and teen, it was blasphemous to read other teachings, accept Muslim flyers and books, read the horoscopes, etc. As a child, I felt so sorry for Jews and Muslems, and Jehova's Witnesses, because I was taught they were going to Hell. The "Jew Man, who sold me penny candy, and whom I adored was going to hell, because he was a Jew. There were times when I even though my mom wasn't going to make it because she had a tendency to drink of the spirits. How frightening this was for me. Of course I grew up and found God in my own way. My mother had taught me that the most important thing was "the Golden Rule." So many so-called Christians have commited the most awful crimes against humanity in the name of Jesus Christ, such as slavery, hanging, etc. Most of my godliness, so far, has come from the workings of Christians, non-traditional Christians, and non-Christians alike. I truly love the Spirt and Essence of Jesus Christ, and his Spirit and Essence is what I strive to be more of each day. Peace, Light and Love to you and yours. . . . CordieB.
Jesus is my savier and he led me to the wisdom of the Buddha after years of praying. Jesus had to withhold deeper teachings (refer to John) due to the capacity of the people at that time and place. Once the deeper teachings were revealed to me via Buddha's wisdom, I can truely verify what Jesus was saying about the 'kingdom of heaven'. It is indeed within everyone of us, we just need to open up to it by 'BE STILL AND KNOW'!!! What is it? If medication can not train you to be still I don't know what can? Would judging, arguing, attacking others make you still?
There is only one truth, one mind and they can be manifested into varieties of things and they all have to be respected. That's why Christianity teaches 'love thy neighbor…'.
I can understand and appreciate Christian's view through the window of the Buddha's view, but can the other way around be said?
Christians, if you have enough courage, read up on Buddha's teaching and get a bigger picture. Jesus was absent for 18 years for spiritual cultivation before he came down to take the cross to save us sentient beings. He lived as a monk, no different from that of a Buddhist monk. Jesus said to be quailified to be his disciple he has to sell everything (including family relationships) and to follow him in spiritual pursuit. Is it anything different from Buddhist monastics? Who can truly qualify to be Jesus disciple nowadays? Who is to say that they alone got it all right? Certainly, Buddha's teaching is much higher level and is against popular believes, just like in Jesus times, people killed him because of his radical sayings. Likewise, Buddhism is widely misunderstood and even hated among those who have neither a clue nore any comprehension of it. However, as time goes by, we will eventually awake like Buddha did and there will be no more fights among people.
Didn't Jesus say when you pray go to the closet and close all the (sensual) doors, why bargain or ask favors from God? He know you before you are even born. So, to me, meditation is the proper prayer and it makes a great deal of sense BIG TIME! Only through meditation is when I can connect with Jesus Christ, is when I can testify that Jesus is my Lord and savier.
I have Buddha to thank for, because he gave me Jesus!
I'm a Christian Buddhist. The work of zazen is the work of Witness. The Kingdom is here, now. May the peace of Jesus be on you and those who proselytize at you.
Again, thanks for sharing and the humor. Humor does wonders for the soul. Peace, Light and Love to you and Yours. . . CordieB.
You can be so heavenly bound until you are no earthly good – Dr. Oscar Lane
Identification with an organization or a cause is not substitute for self-realization – Swami Rudrananda
I believe Jesus can fix and use any witness. If we pray that Christ will use any evangelism today, gentle or harsh, from false motives or pure I believe He will. I say grace and forgiveness for brother orange cap. Who among us knows his heart?
Both. Obviously, no?
Have a problem or had a problem?
I don't have a problem in the world with his heart. I have a problem with his behavior.
I had a friend who was saved by a young girl handing out tracts at Mari Gras. The Holy Spirit was already wooing her and the contrast between the girl and the revellers nudged her across the line from lost to found. If only we could be more sensitive to His leading, we would know which strokes for which folks–and when. That's how Y'shua knew; He was completely in tune with His Father through the Spirit. But I hope if Mr. Orange Cap were to aggressively try to dissuade me from my beliefs, I would be able to show him my faith by my works, speaking the truth in love. Not either or.
Cipher: I "gave up" Zen maybe 10 years before I became a Christian. (I didn't "give up" on it; I just … had come to understand its limitations.) And yes, now I do agree with much of what Mr. Orange Cap did such an awful job of communicating.
Jeannie: You're right; it was too harsh to say what I did about the anger/love quotient of cold evangelism. This format–blog comments–doesn't, of course, leave enough room for the kinds of qualifications comprehensive communications naturally deserve. I didn't take the time to do justice to the completeness of that thought, and for that I sincerly apologize. And since you were kind enough to (so kindly) ask my opinion on the kind of evangelistic technique you excercised that night for your class, I suppose it won't come as any surprise to you that I don't much care for it at all. I think it's wonderful that you saved (or, I know, help saved) that girl. Fantastic, of course!! But my feeling/thought is this: That woman would have come to Christ anyway; she was on her way; you just happened to be the one to give her that final push. But the COST to the faith overall for you having done that was, to my way of thinking, entirely too great. Because for every person EVER in that fashion brought to the faith, infinite numbers more were repelled further from it. Just PRACTICALLY, that kind of evangelism fails at its own purpose. Saving one–who, as I say, was, I am confident, BOUND to be saved anyway–but in the process of "saving" that one repelling, say, 100 others, is just … bad business, basically. I can't see any way around the fact that it simply does so much more harm to the faith overall than it does good.
Trace: My EXACT point. Once someone asks, it's on. That's the key: they have to ASK–they have to trust you that much, care about you that much, find you that attractive. Once they ask, of course you're then free to essentially answer their question. That's a beautiful thing. I just wish my fellow Christians would more often bear in mind that the whole point of a WITNESS is, after all, to only answer questions.
Hi John,
Thanks for what you're doing. I'm so glad I read your book I'm Okay-You're Not so early in my "Christian career." I'm sure it has helped me avoid some confusion.
Is anyone familiar with 12-step programs, such as Alcoholics Anonymous? They have a tradition of "attraction rather than promotion." Basically, they recognize that if you tell a drunk that he needs to admit his complete and utter failure at running his own life and accept that he must turn his will over to God or die a lonely death, he will quite understandably run away screaming.
If you show an alcoholic WHO ASKS (and they eventually will, when they get into enough pain) how you used to be just like him, complete with the pain and the misery, but tell him what you did to get out of it, he will run toward the same thing that helped you, even if it's something as scary and absolute as God.
AA started about 70 years ago with two guys. Today there are millions of members all over the world.
AA members do not go out searching for drunks (anymore. They did in the very early days, because no one knew who they were yet.) God brings the drunks to them.
The same thing has happened in my own experience. About a month or so after I became a Christian, my best friend pulled me aside and said, "Ok, WHAT is it? Why are you beaming like that? What is going on? Can I have some?" So I told her. She came to church with me that Sunday and was baptised about six weeks later.
Side note- When I met her five years earlier, just the word "Jesus" made her shudder with revulsion. She knew who he was and wanted nothing to do with him. That is, until she saw what he was doing in my crazy life.
God does the work. All I have to do is tell the truth.
For all who are describing a hell that is merely seperation from the presence of God (although that is a horrible thought) are you reading the same New Testament I am? Jesus described hell as a place of eternal torments, weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place where the devil and all the fallen angels will be (it was designed for them). He described one man who had it made on this side who found himself there and was begging for a drop of water from Lazarus to cool his tongue because he was being tormented in this flame Luke 16:23-25. Jesus said not to fear what man can do to you for all they can do is destroy the body, he said we should fear him (God) who has the power to destroy both soul and body by casting you into hell. Jesus was so strong to say if a part of you body was doing something wrong (arm,eye,ect..) it would be better to cut it off than it would be to let it cause you to go to hell Matthew 5:29-30. Time prevents me from quoting from every place in the New Testament this is spoken however the picture should be clear. Just becasue A LOT of people may not believe in a literal place of punishment for the lost Jesus sure thought it was real.
Just read it again and sorry to say, I thought it was all hilarious! Or is it just the way you have of putting things? Thanks for the good laugh John.
Cipher: Beautiful, deep comment: Thanks for it. Let me try pretty quickly to address your questions with what I’m sure will be inadequate responses:
I do think any person needs outside help to better the worst of his nature. And by outside, I do indeed mean God. I personally happen to think that, of all the interpretations and understandings of God out there, the Christian belief system is (in a word) the best one.
I don’t practice Buddhism anymore. But I easily agree with your statement, “Buddhism can help one to overcome one’s innate selfish tendencies.” I know that to be true. And yes, I also feel that, all things being equal, it cannot do so as completely or readily as Christianity can.
A lot of Christians don’t believe hell is literal; they understand it as a metaphor for existing outside the presence of God. A LOT of Christians.
Actually (as far as I know) conservative evangelicals AREN’T accusing me of heresy. Those four or five recent, negative reviews about I’m OK are from this little cabal of people who all know each other, and saw in persecuting my book nothing more interesting than a chance to bring some attention to their little business, which is selling coffee cups and mugs and T-shirts adorned with slogans all about how sinners go to hell — “Get Saved or Burn Forever,” and all that sort of thing. On coffee cups. And T-shirts. And trucker caps.
Ann: What a story. Painful. AWFUL! And so terribly, terribly common. Man. That hurts. “Sad” barely begins to describe it. Yet does, perfectly.
Different strokes for different folks – something must have got through to you!!
John…have you shared your thoughts on evangelizing with those in SBC circles? I went to an SBC seminary to get my degree in counseling. I had to take a class for the basic MDiv curriculum that required us to go to an already highly proselytized section of the city and witness to people by giving out tracks and the like….the exact sort of method that Mr. Orange Cap was likely doing. I can't believe that it NEVER works…as I had the honor of leading a young girl fallen on hard times to the Lord myself using this "method." I just thought it was maybe overly harsh to say that that "type" of evangelizing is only about working out personal issues and dealing with anger, not love. Of course, my immediate motivation for even being in the right place at the right time was the impending grade on the exercise, which to some might seem the antithesis to why we should evangelize in the first place. But I believe the heart of the exercise was to get us out of our comfort zones and enable us with the knowledge that God does work through all types of people and all types of motivations and evangelistic methods…no matter how our own selves might get in the way. But most, if not all, SBC seminaries have this type of class…called Supervised Ministry. I'm just curious as to your opinion on this approach.
Actually (as far as I know) conservative evangelicals AREN’T accusing me of heresy.
Oh. That's kind of too bad, actually. That impressed me!
Those four or five recent, negative reviews about I’m OK are from this little cabal of people who all know each other, and saw in persecuting my book nothing more interesting than a chance to bring some attention to their little business, which is selling coffee cups and mugs and T-shirts adorned with slogans all about how sinners go to hell — “Get Saved or Burn Forever,” and all that sort of thing. On coffee cups. And T-shirts. And trucker caps.
I saw that one of them, a young woman, works for Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron (don't even get me started). I didn't realize they were all together.
A lot of Christians don’t believe hell is literal; they understand it as a metaphor for existing outside the presence of God. A LOT of Christians.
I understand, but conservatives still envision it as an eternal state, resulting from a "decision" we make while in this frail, benighted condition. I find it deplorable. Liberal theology is another matter. And I realize that there is a growing belief in universal salvation among evangelicals, but my sense of it is that the numbers are still small.
Did you give up Zen because you felt it was in conflict with your Christian beliefs? My experience has been that Zen and Vipassana are presented in the West almost entirely as meditative method. Tibetan Buddhism has retained more of its religious aspects. Do you now agree, substantially, with what that fellow was saying?
You get so much further in life as a witness and evangelizer if you do respect the belief systems you encounter. I won’t say that I haven’t sat there and listened to someone describe what they believe and had the same alarm bells ringing in my head that you had with Mr. Orange Cap. There is something scary about hearing someone profess a belief that will ultimately land them in Hell. But the key is definitely to listen, not just feign interest and nod in the appropriate places. People are relational, and gaining access to describe YOUR beliefs will come much more readily when you allow the other person to go first and demonstrate a real interest in what they are saying. Then turn about is fair play, and most people will feel obligated then to listen to your on your “turn” in this comic “game” where the winner gets more than the last say. I appreciated this reminder of how Christians, meaning the absolute best, can shoot ourselves in the foot. Wasn’t is Ghandi who said, “I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians.” (?) Here is a good reason why that might have been the case for him.
Wow, this has been insightful. I've been "evangelizing" since 1st grade – 40 years later I hope I've learned some things. Doesn't grace cover it all? I sure am hoping so! (not wishful thinking but the firm conviction type of hope)
No. But like all things that aren't difficult to do, after two minutes it's ALWAYS boring.
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