I'm not amazed. I'm a bit concerned my comment was viewed as a "Yay Jesus people, boo atheists – shut up and stop being mean as we prevent you from getting married and hide the priests who abused you. I always have partial comment regret after that kind of response.

People are furious with Christians for not living up to who we claim to love and follow. They want answers, and are demanding answers because the decisions often made by our vote and our posture as we go out into the world *literally* does damage. So they're scared of us, they don't trust us and if Christians were more interested in actually putting ourselves in their shoes, we'd get it.

It's tempting for people like you and I to say "But I'm one of the good christians, so stop being such an asshole – be nice to me! Me! Me! Me!", etc. But to many people who aren't Christian, that doesn't matter because you and I still choose to worship in places where the "bad" people are, we're still associating ourselves with a religion whose tenants have caused many of its followers to cause a lot of harm. So they aren't terribly interested in giving them a pass, and with all due respect it's probably a bit self-absorbed for us to keep asking for one.

The crap that Christians do is our responsibility as Christians to fix, not theirs. My point to David is he could *help* us. And I want some relief for he and others from the hate that must be so miserable, though that might not be realistic and is probably a bit patronizing.

He could really help us though so many are so sick of us that they've no inclination in doing so, they just want us to go away. And honestly – I get why. At minimum, I'd ask someone like David to take the heat off of guys like John who are actually getting the things done we should be getting done as a group of people who believe in Christ. But John knows what he's getting into, he seems up for it.

Christians aren't victims. Getting into an argument about tone with someone who isn't able to marry the person she or he loves because they are gay as a result of Christians voting against that? There's a place for that, but the overall point is for us to actually listen to how angry people are. Listen to the comments they are making behind the questions. Maybe David can help us listen by taking the edge off. Or perhaps the edge in his anger is what will actually get more of us to listen. I don't know.

I think we've each been amazed at how some individuals (I this case, those railing against fundamentalist, zealots, proselytizers, and bigots) embody the very undesirable characteristics they would staunchly claim to abhor.

I think it is the psychology of hate. There's probably a clinical term for this.

Now I apparently have a job I should go do and I think I’ve gone on enough!

There’s nothing to add, really. Well, maybe this: this is John’s blog. He’s entitled to use it any way he chooses, and to express any opinions that he has.

We are clearly welcome to engage him in thoughtful discussion, debate, and even disagreement.

But if we think we’re doing anything significant with hate, spite, anger, rage, and the likes of that, all we are doing, when we engage in that, is stabbing ourselves in the foot, so to speak. It accomplishes nothing.

Enough said, by my ineloquent self.

When you think back to Jesus praying in the Garden of Gethsemane when he prayed to his Father, in Luke 22:42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” (NIV), he clearly indicates that he does, indeed, have a will in this matter, that he chooses to submit to his Father's Will.

To me, this shows, very simply, that Jesus did make a choice, to die that way, the way his Father willed. Now whether that constitutes "orchestrating," or not, is another matter. It certainly is, however, a choice he made, to accept this route, for the sake of all of humanity.