He did it so as the prophecies were fulfilled, but that is not *why* He did it so. Rather, because He was to do it that way is why the prophesies happened to say so, not the other way around.

Jesus’ birth would not have any great significance for man except as a part of a chain of events that leads through His death—with which all that had to be done was accomplished—to the resurrection—with which begins the revelation of all that He had accomplished.

Of course, disagreeing doesn’t make you or me hell-bound!

He agonized in Gesthemane, but he also framed this as “Things are going to be rough for you, but I’m going to make up nice rooms for you in my Father’s house, you’ll really like it.” And, to fulfill scriptural prophesies, he had to go out persecuted, so he did. A Catholic acquaintance has told me this means I am not a True Christian and am likely hellbound. Not the message I’ve been getting from God, luckily.

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I’m going to be flippant for a moment, and say this: my dad spent 2 years dying of lung cancer. Jesus had a really bad weekend. Same end result. same loss of dignity. Dad suffered longer, if not as intently. How is it, being divine, and essentially immortal, Jesus managed to atone for all of humanity, and yet the death of my dad and the deaths of soldiers and those who died in service to humanity don’t count for that much?

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Good question! VERY good question.

Is 53 says that as the Messiah "He took the stroke of justice for US to WHOM the punishment was DUE".

In Hebrews 2 we are told that "HE tasted the sufferings of death" for everyone of mankind.

In 1John 2:2 "He is the Atoning SACRIFICE for our sin and NOT for our sins only but for the SINS of the WHOLE World".

You are right to conclude that what we see Externally in Christ's sufferings is NOT the "payment made" for sin. It is simply the outward physical form — the nexus/intersect in the Ven diagram in physical form that we can see.

In the book of John we are told that BEFORE being crucified Christ stated that His soul was in supernatural agonay and torture "My soul is sorrowful even unto death" and the supernatural agony was so great that by the time He reached the garden – and while in prayer "He sweat great drops of blood" — on the cross He died "and both water and blood flood" showiing that the pericardium had burst around His heart due to the extreme suffering in paying for the sins of the world.

So "IF" you are asking for the Christian "reason" as to why the sufferings of Christ are in fact that sufferings OWED by all mankind in the lake of Fire for all sins committed in all time — and yet to physical appearances – this is "a bad 2 days" — that is the rationale given.

"God so Loved the World that HE Gave HIS only begotten son that whosoever Believes on Him might not perish but have ever lasting life".

There is an interesting follow-up reading for this in John 11 where Mary and Martha come to Jesus in tears with the bitter lament "IF you had been here my brother would not have died" — might want to look that one up.

in Christ,

Bob

Words fail to grasp the pain of losing loved ones.

The pain and death on this earth is awful and it doesn't give me hope of anything better but when I look at Jesus — I get a different picture — the hope (faith) that all this misery will come to an end.

John 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

For me it boils down to hope — hope(faith) that because Jesus died for this world's sins — I have the great hope of going to heaven.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

John 14:"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Jesus came so to take my sin so I can become the righteousness of God. I can truly say “In Jesus I am the righteousness of God.”

2 Corinthians 5:21God made him(Jesus) who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him (Jesus) we might become the righteousness of God.

Just a couple words of HOPE in a world of pain.

LCR asks -

"By whose “authority” is the Bible an accurate definition of God?"

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Well it's a no-brainer to see it as the authorotative definition for "the Christian God".

But if you are not talking to a Christian – but to a Hindu — then I think you are going to have to speak in terms the Hindu documents for God.

If you are trying to get to "IS THERE a GOD no matter Christian or Hindu" the answer is pretty obvious from nature – "Yes".

The architecture and design for encoding, transmitting and decoding DNA has put that question to rest.

But it does not tell us "whose God" – Hindu or Christian.

If you start by asking the question "WHY would God allow…." or "Why would God do such-and-such" to a Christian – then you are going to "fully expect" an answer from "the Christian Text".

Because (obviously) IF you got an answer "off the top of somebody's head" in response that flatly contradicted the Christian Bible – the next "obvious question" would be – "Well then why does the Bible say that God…" etc.

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LCM -

"I assume you wrote the post itself but all of your comments are unsubstantiated claims that I would wager to have their origin in the Bible, such as:

“This is why God allows Earth to suffer the consequences of sin – the misuse of freewill on humanity’s part – for a time. He knows it is best.”

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The fact that an atheist would not accept the Bible as "his authority" is not too surprising. The fact that an atheist would imagine that a Christian 'has another source the defines God as well as the bible" IS -

Bob

You are absolutely correct to claim that the Bible IS THE authorotative source for "defining the Christian God" — Christians have no other book for doing that very thing so Christians call it "the WORD of God".

So no matter if one is atheist or Christian IF the context is to "discuss the Christian God and ask why he would or would not do something" – THEN the source text that defines him is "logic to consult" —

Impossible to escape your logic there. You are absolutely correct.

Also you made a very good point that GIVEN a "free will" construct for the Christian God's creation according to the Bible – we would expect some of the same limits as we see today in our own justice systems. As the bible speaks about not removing the weeds from the wheat until the harvest "lest you destroy some of the wheat" so our Justice system might give a criminal more lattitude than "he deserves" to preserve our democracy.

Good points all – thanks for sharing that logical presentation.

Bob