It must be admitted that atheists make some good points about why and how a person might arrive at the conclusion that there is no God. Fair enough; reason is a beautiful thing, and we must all respect its power. (Of course, in my last post, Atheists of America Agree: Christianity Makes Eminent Rational Sense!, I proved so conclusively that the Christian view of life is the only one that makes sense that everyone who read and/or commented on that post agreed with it. I expected no less.)
I’m so sure that Christ was God come to earth as man that I am willing to hand the atheists what I think is their final, best bet for making the case that there either is no God at all – or that if there is a God, he’s such a dunderhead that anyone who ignores him will surely be forgiven.
Listen up, atheists: This is your Big Chance. What I am about to tell you is like Achilles stopping on the battlefield, pointing to his heel, and hollering out, “Hey, everyone! Shoot me here! This is where I’m vulnerable! Just aim right here!”
Venus spins backwards.
Oh, like you knew.
You atheists have to act like you know everything, don’t you?
Anyway — since I do know you people want proof of everything — verification that Venus turns the wrong way is here.
Atheist or not, you will, I know, be upset to learn that one of our Key Planets doesn’t even know which way it’s supposed to turn. I must admit that I, too, was shocked to discover this most disorienting of facts.
Aetheist or Christian, we all want to exist in an ordered, dependable universe. A retarded Venusian revolution certainly challenges the assumption that we do.
Challenges it, yes. But wins that challenge? I think not.
I believe that Venus spinning backwards does not prove that God doesn’t exist. As we all know, since time immemorial, Venus has represented love. I think having Venus spin backwards is God’s way of bringing all of humanity together under the one great and universal truth that no matter who you are, where you come from, or what you believe in, love remains an insane thing you can’t predict, control, or feel comfortable with at all.
We can argue about the existence of God until the cows forget how to come home. But surely we must all agree that when it comes to the human emotion of love, we are, and must forever remain, out and out morons.
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
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Terri -
As noted previously in the thread – this is a simple matter of physics and the fact that all byproducts of an initial thermodynamic event that has a spin characteristic will share the SAME spin characteristic.
I.e. If a spinning bottle expodes the shards coming out of it will have the same direction of spin. The fact that some of the planets have opposite spin – and some galaxies have opposite spin – seems to define what an atheist would “expect” from the laws of “uniformitarianism” —
Bob
Who said it backwards? Just because it does not spin the way this planet or any other planet, means in any way that it is going backwards according to Gods. It is however spining in the direction God chose for it to spin according to His laws in His universe. It just proves to me that I truly do have an awesome God and that none of us know everything.
“Tell me one last thing,” said Harry. “Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?”
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” [-Dumbledore]
Understood.
Dan,
No one is saying that faith isn't real. The question is whether or not the object of that faith is real.
If your friend has faith and it is helping him get through this time, then I don't imagine anyone would wish to take it away from him.
This comment has application in this blog and a couple of previous blogs and then I'll just probably shut up.
It's been said that perception is reality. I think that is a valid maxim in the world of blogging. We see words and perceive emotion behind them. At times, merely because of terms and vocabulary used, or literary tone, those perceptions are real in actuality, not merely in the imagination of the 'receptor'. When the subject is 'God' emotions run high. I am passionate about what I believe, and I will defend my faith. We believers are called to defend our faith and to proclaim it, but it is foolish for us to try and 'persuade' because that is God's business. We believers are rightly reminded that faith is to be demonstrated, not pounded down anyone's throat. That is the purpose of this comment, to tell you about a demonstration of faith.
I have friend named Georg (that's right – no 'G'). He has days to live due to a battle with brain cancer. I met Georg years ago when we were both attending the same language course at a military base in New England. I found myself discussing matters of faith with someone in the course (not Georg) who was not a Christian, but not atheistic either. Georg walked over to where I was having an early breakfast in a dining facility and told me that he had heard the discussions about God and it stirred his heart. He became a man of faith and will die a man of faith. How do I know that in the midst of pain and suffering he has not denied his God?
I receive email updates from His wife Wendy. Yesterday's update was that Georg has just days left. When, months ago, the diagnosis was certain and the effects of having brain cancer kicked in, Georg's comment to Wendy was that he hoped there would be no turning away from, or anger at God for what he (Georg) was going through. He was able to see his daughter married and during lucid moments they have done some video so Georg could speak to the grandchildren he would never be able to see in person.
In the hospital, when he still could, Georg had a habit of either praying with, or after they left, for those who came to visit. He would pray that God would bless THEM in the middle of his own suffering. As things have worsened for him – friends and family have consistently cared for him and tended to his needs. When he could only speak a few words at a time to those taking care of him, his most frequent words, spoken through pain, have been "God bless you."
That is a demonstration of faith! How can it NOT be real? Is that sort of faith a delusion or myth? I think not. The strength of Georg's faith amazes me – and shames me.
I just wanted to share that.
Venus turning "backwards", (presumptive that it is not turning forward and maybe everything else is actually backwards), has no bearing one way or the other for an argument that there is or is not a God. In my mind, (what little is there) we all WILL find out this answer in due time whether you are a believer or not.
"Although, Feynman? Really? [..] He seems to contradict himself too often…as your chosen quotes indicate."
Just out of curiosity, do you think the contradiction is here: "We will not become enthusiastic for the fact, the knowledge, the absolute truth of the day [...]" ? This merely means we will not care about thinking we have the right answer as much as truly having it when we arrive at it.
Feynman was an atheist, but are you sure he was anti-God? I haven't heard that about him. He was most famous for his physics lectures, especially quantum electrodynamics, so I can forgive him for not having the sharpest points against theism in the toolbox.
"But I have to say that as much of my “faith” is tied up in doubt as it is in belief."
I didn't understand that, but as long as I'm continuing to role-play on this post, here's another from my automated atheist-quote generator:
"I agree that faith is essential to success in life (success of any sort) but I do not accept your definition of faith, i.e. belief in life after death. In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining. Anyone able to believe in all that religion implies obviously must have such faith, but I maintain that faith in this world is perfectly possible without faith in another world."
- Rosalind Franklin, letter to her father
(Note that Rosalind basically set Watson up for modeling DNA, but he gave her no credit.)
Good for a laugh (as always) as are the responses (again, as always). The people not trying to be funny are the ones that drop me on the floor. Sheesh. Grow a sense of humor already! Or wait…don’t. Keep posting here and proving John right–that we are out and out morons.
Brad: good point about the book! Although, Feynman? Really? Alright, in quotable form I can take him, but by and large he’s not my favorite anti-God writer/thinker on the planet. He seems to contradict himself too often…as your chosen quotes indicate. But I have to say that as much of my “faith” is tied up in doubt as it is in belief. It is not a purely atheistic point of view.
gothiquefae,
I'm glad I could be of service to you! I probably could have just spoke of the Irqi Muslimg I meet during a 15 month tour over there, but I think finding something more tangible would be better. During my time over there (training the New Iraqi Army) we used English speaking Iraqis whoe were hired locally and we had a sizable number of U.S. citizens from the Detroit area who left Iraq to settle in the states. I met some really fine men and we even had some very good discussions concerning the difference between Islam and Christianity. They hate what is happenning in the 'name of Allah', as did the soldiers we trained. We had some who turned up at our location to be part of the new army even after being hit in a bombing of the recruiting station in Baghdad. It was an incredible experience!
What's the question? Is it does the spaghetti monster still flies when we're all dead or whether jihad is better spelled backwards=hadij, which by the way reminds of the serial thriller Gun Smoke, Dodge city and the wild, wild west, or is it whether we are morons because we love to argue at the same venus seeks to confuse.
I agree that the Go’uld could have something to do with this phenomena Lol.
And don't worry I realize that this is meant to be humourous, I was attempting to spark a conversation and it worked
Like you said Blogging axiom, it's fun to see what happens. Oh and one last note I would like to extend a very real "thank you" to born4battle on your response to me, I very much appreciate you helping me add to my understanding of a different culture and religion.
Gothique
I'm one day closer to the answer.
“Among most Westerners, the term “Jihad” (“struggle” in Arabic) often brings up images of Muslim terrorists killing people who disagree with them. Jihad is an emotionally charged word that is heralded by the Western news media in descriptions of Middle East activities. People need not wait long to hear the term used during nightly news and see the affects of present day Islamic struggles in vivid pictures of destruction beamed to our televisions. But is this a fair assessment of the Muslim community as a whole?
Jihad has been interpreted by Muslims in different ways. The Muslim sect of the Kharijites has elevated Jihad to one of the Five Pillars of Islam — making it Six Pillars. This kind of belief is seen in the extremist Muslim groups we call terrorists. They use the concept of Jihad as a justification for killing anyone who isn’t a Muslim. However, most Muslims disagree with this extremist position of some Muslims and advocate peace. These Muslims view Jihad as a spiritual struggle against evil in a metaphorical sense.1
For the most part, there is the Greater and Lesser Jihad. The Greater Jihad is the internal spiritual struggle of the Muslim toward submission to Allah. The Lesser Jihad is Holy War against non-Muslims based on principle of belief. It is this latter that has caused the most concern among Westerners. Is that concern warranted? Many think so.”
Islamic scholar Jamal Badawi, chairman of the Islamic Information Foundation in Halifax, insists that a jihad is `permitted only in self-defense or against tyranny and oppression–not as a tool to promote Islam.” But, experts added, the ancient Islamic empires were built as much by force as by persuasion. Islam’s founder, Mohammed, frequently used force, or the threat of it, to unify the nomadic tribes of the Arabian peninsula. The caliphs, who succeeded Mohammed as leaders of the Arab world, successfully took up arms against the Christian Byzantine Empire in Egypt and the Holy Land. By the end of the ninth century, Arabian armies had extended Islamic power from Spain to the borders of India.2
Anyone who has studied Islamic history must surely notice how frequently the Muslims were involved in battle after battle. Within 200 years after its inception, Islam had spread through a huge geographical area and many converts were made by the sword.
What does the Qur’an say about Jihad?
The Qur’an is the single most important authority in all of Islam. It is the scripture given from Allah through the angel Gabriel. Does the Qur’an teach Jihad? Absolutely yes. As you will see in the following quotes from the Qur’an, Holy War is definitely taught and encouraged.
“Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure,” (Surah 61:4).
“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits…191And slay them wherever ye catch them. and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution is worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they (first) fight you there; But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. 192 But if they cease, Allah is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 193And fight them on until there is no more persecution. And the religion becomes Allah’s. But if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression” (The Qur’an, Surah 2:190-193).
“O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things,” (Surah 9:38-39).
See also Surah 4:74-76; 61:10-12.
What does the Hadith say about Jihad?
The Hadith are the recorded sayings and deeds of the Prophet Muhammad. It is second in authority only to the Qur’an and is often used to clarify things not specified in the Qur’an. What did Muhammad say about Jihad as recorded in the Hadith?
“The Prophet said, “The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah’s cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause.”Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35, Narrated Abu Huraira
“Allah’s Apostle said, “A pious slave gets a double reward.” Abu Huraira added: By Him in Whose Hands my soul is but for Jihad (i.e. holy battles), Hajj, and my duty to serve my mother, I would have loved to die as a slave. Volume 3, Book 46, Number 724: Narrated Abu Huraira
“Allah’s Apostle said, “Allah guarantees (the person who carries out Jihad in His Cause and nothing compelled him to go out but Jihad in His Cause and the belief in His Word) that He will either admit him into Paradise (Martyrdom) or return him with reward or booty he has earned to his residence from where he went out.” Volume 9, Book 93, Number 555: Narrated Abu Huraira.
Obviously Muhammad taught that Holy War was an acceptable and good thing to do. To clarify, he even stated that if a Muslim were to die in battle, fighting for the cause of Allah, that he would be guaranteed to go to Paradise.
Do you have a specific point other than to tell us you laugh a lot at comments here including those meant to be serious?
If everyone wants to believe that there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster, then ya'll will not be shocked when you're dead and cease to exist.
It's precisely this type of goo-goo eyed crap that passes for the dumbed-down public education most people receive.
Venus spinning backwards is an evil plot of the Go’uld or maybe the Ori. Their goal goal – mess with people’s minds. They are also responsible for the Pluto situation.
Yes, i watch way too much Sci-Fi.
gothiquefae, Venus is not random! It is the planet of love!
(Seriously, this thread is meant to be a joke, to promote civility in the face of differences, not make any scientific point.)
Comments always start out relevant to a post, but will diverge to an end which entirely depends on the blog’s audience. Blogging axiom.
Oh and a random planet spinning backwards, although interesting, doesn’t prove anything.
Jonathan Coulton gives great perspective to the Pluto dispute at http://www.jonathancoulton.com/songdetails/I'm%20Your%20Moon. It is lovely, how Pluto and its moon orbit each other.
As for the reason for the post… Jesus Christ’s main goal was to save the world from itself by shedding His divinity, taking on human form and our “mortal cares” to be the offering of offerings in our stead. Such love (the greater has no man kind) is so different than what we humans demonstrate that the Venus/love thing makes a lot of sense, if, of course, you know the real Jesus. God bless you all.
Just a short note the Koran doesn't actually teach the jihad as suicide bombings and martyrdom, in fact Mohammed said that the greatest jihad was within. So the whole virgins thing for a Islam version heaven for a martyr doesn't apply because it isn't in their belief system. At all.
G.
“To have a torture chamber for all the kafirs (unbelievers and people of other religions).
To terrorize people into accepting Islam. ”
This is different from some peoples’ idea of christianity how?
Believe in Jesus or go to hell. Believe in Allah or go to hell.
Yeah, those are nothing alike.
“But surely we must all agree that when it comes to the human emotion of love, we are, and must forever remain, out and out morons.”
$latex \to $
“According to THAT book, lack of belief means condemned already, even before crossing death’s physical death’s door.”
—
Advertisement on the side of this page: “I’m OK–You’re Not: The Message We’re Sending Nonbelievers and Why We Should Stop” by John Shore
—
“We humans are always trying to figure out things, we have to have an answer to everything, [...]”
Richard Feynman sez:
“I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong.”
&
“If we will only allow that, as we progress, we remain unsure, we will leave opportunities for alternatives. We will not become enthusiastic for the fact, the knowledge, the absolute truth of the day, but remain always uncertain… In order to make progress, one must leave the door to the unknown ajar.”
&
“…far more marvelous is the truth than any artists of the past imagined it. Why do the poets of the present not speak of it? What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?”
John,
Is there a support group for Plutonics (those unable to get past Pluto’s declassification)? I love the song ‘The Planets Revolve Around The Sun’ – been singing it to my kids for over 20 years….what am I gonna do with the lyrics:
‘Jupiter, Saturn next in line…Uranus, Neptune and Pluto make nine’,
I’m still so devastated…
TheIslamic Hell or Jahannum was an imagination of Prophet Mohammed used primarily for two reasons:
To have a torture chamber for all the kafirs (unbelievers and people of other religions).
To terrorize people into accepting Islam.
Although the earlier mentined silly old book contains the concept of hell, the remedy is a free gift of grace (unmerited favor) by belief in an atoning sacrifice, while the Koran only offers as a torture chamber preventative measure a system of sufficient good works, unless of course one is martyred for the ’cause’ and one’s ticket to paradise and your choice of virgins or whatever is assured.
Which current male sitcom figure most resembles Eve’s Adam? I don’t watch many sitcoms so have no idea.
Raeliyah did you Create that cosmic soap opera?
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