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	<title>Comments on: Praise God: A Politician Finally Said Something Real About Racism</title>
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	<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/</link>
	<description>Trying God&#039;s patience since 1958</description>
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		<title>By: Aggie Bird</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5374</link>
		<dc:creator>Aggie Bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5374</guid>
		<description>Mr. Wright, I ask your forgiveness for all the times you have been made to feel less than anyone else.  Please forgive us all. 
I taught school and always noticed that the black children were so hungry for acceptance and my hugs.  Some would stand on the playground during recess while the others played.  My heart ached for them.  Parents need to teach and show their children that the same Person made All of us and He loves All of us (JUST AS WE SHOULD) 
Mr. Wright let us all know what it is like to feel less than.  Read what he has said and listen to the hurt.  He speak for a lot of black people who are treated with little or no respect.   
Let&#039;s change America people - reach out and treat ALL PEOPLE the same.  See if we can do something to change these hurts and little by little our Nation will love as we have been called to do by the Creator of Us All. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Wright, I ask your forgiveness for all the times you have been made to feel less than anyone else.  Please forgive us all.</p>
<p>I taught school and always noticed that the black children were so hungry for acceptance and my hugs.  Some would stand on the playground during recess while the others played.  My heart ached for them.  Parents need to teach and show their children that the same Person made All of us and He loves All of us (JUST AS WE SHOULD)</p>
<p>Mr. Wright let us all know what it is like to feel less than.  Read what he has said and listen to the hurt.  He speak for a lot of black people who are treated with little or no respect.  </p>
<p>Let&#039;s change America people &#8211; reach out and treat ALL PEOPLE the same.  See if we can do something to change these hurts and little by little our Nation will love as we have been called to do by the Creator of Us All.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5367</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5367</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t live in 1930 Rock. The only place I&#039;m aware of anything like the above you mention existing is some African countries such as present day Zimbabwe. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#039;t live in 1930 Rock. The only place I&#039;m aware of anything like the above you mention existing is some African countries such as present day Zimbabwe.</p>
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		<title>By: RockLock</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5349</link>
		<dc:creator>RockLock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5349</guid>
		<description>Washedandforgiven, I did check my history...Turns out the Bill of Rights applied only to Americans which, legally, Blacks were not until the 14th amendment which was three years after the 13th amendment which abolished slavery, both coming 90 years after the American Revolution.  Sure, there are plenty of people who wanted to &quot;deal&quot; with slavery before the civil war but the very fact they &quot;compromised&quot; the rights of millions of humans as a political move shows the lack of importance they had for slaves.  I did know blacks fought for independence, some where forced, some where clueless and some Blacks fought for the British and left to Canada and back to Britain in hopes of freedom.   
 
Ross, I wished I lived in your world where &quot;no people actually believe the&#039;re race is superior to another&quot; there are entire philosophies and sciences and social constructs based on this belief. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Washedandforgiven, I did check my history&#8230;Turns out the Bill of Rights applied only to Americans which, legally, Blacks were not until the 14th amendment which was three years after the 13th amendment which abolished slavery, both coming 90 years after the American Revolution.  Sure, there are plenty of people who wanted to &quot;deal&quot; with slavery before the civil war but the very fact they &quot;compromised&quot; the rights of millions of humans as a political move shows the lack of importance they had for slaves.  I did know blacks fought for independence, some where forced, some where clueless and some Blacks fought for the British and left to Canada and back to Britain in hopes of freedom.  </p>
<p>Ross, I wished I lived in your world where &quot;no people actually believe the&#039;re race is superior to another&quot; there are entire philosophies and sciences and social constructs based on this belief.</p>
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		<title>By: Byron Borger</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5320</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron Borger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5320</guid>
		<description>Ross:  Hey, thanks for the inquiry about whether the Bible commands inter-racial worship.  I think I overstated that, and want to clarify.  Thanks for calling me on it.

Here’s my quick answer: I don&#039;t think it is wise to try to base everything on just one passage.  So we study the whole counsel of God, and get the big picture.  For instance, at the big moment in redemptive history when the story began to include non-Jews, when the gospel went out to “the nations” (the greek word might better be translated ethnic groups) it became clear (as hinted at in Genesis) that God’s heart wanted to include into His people an ethnically diverse, trans-national People.  We call it now the &quot;Great Commission&quot; and it a pivotal moment to invite into God&#039;s Body, those of other racial and religious backgrounds.  His Body was, by design and intent, to be multi-cultural, and we get a glimpse of how that is to happen in the miracle of Pentecost, the Spirit un-doing the curse of Babel.  If you do a study of the ethnic groups there (Acts 2:5-12) in that earliest inauguration of the Church, they were, in fact, people from all over, different races (Ethiopians, for instance, were very dark skinned, of course) and cultures.  God’s earliest expression of the church was notably multi-cultural, and that surely shows some indication of His plan.  It&#039;s not a command, I admit, but it is an picture that is worth immitating, wouldn&#039;t you agree?

Paul teaches often, clearly in Ephesians, that the “wall of separation” the divides Jew &amp; Gentile comes down, and in Christ, we are “brought near” to one another.  Much of the narrative subtext, the story behind the scenes, even in theologically dense books like Romans, is how the local body can get along when there is ethnic diversity present.  

In fact, resistance to the inclusion of others who are different than the early Jewish followers is what riles Paul the most, as he sees it (in Galatians) as falling back upon “another gospel.”  Uniform (in that case legalistic Jewish) worshipping bodies didn’t suit him, and he commission others to be “agents of reconciliation.”  To be cross-culturally active, to bring a diversity of folk to faith, to live in proximity so the world can see how we are reconciled, is part of the model of the early church.  I was wrong to say we are “commanded” to have multi-ethnic worship.  I think it is undeniable. though, that God desires His people to be witnesses (living examples) to His reconciling work.  I suppose various races, ages, classes and cultural styles don’t have to worship together, but we sure better be showing the world that we are in community together, reconciled and united, or we are failing to show the watching world what the Body truly is.   We are commanded to be reconciled, to God and each other, and that clearly, especially in this time and era when racial antagonisms seem to be so prevalent, means somehow working on racial reconciliation, to point to what God intends, and to illustrate the beauty of His ways.

Many think that we get clues to God’s desires from our imagination of what the final consumation is like, and clearly, the end is multi-cultural.  In Revelation 5:9-10 &amp; 13, there is a multi-ethnic choir, drawn together from among the tribes.  I don’t think it is a cheap shot to say that since we will be in close worshipping proximity with multi-cultural, trans-national peoples for all of eternity, we ought to start practicing now!  Or, to put it differently, if that is God’s heart, His holy intent, the way He wants it to be in His perfect, everlasting  Kingdom, then is that not some indication of His heart, now?  We may not be directly commanded, but a heart that burns with the things of God’s reign, the way He wills it to be, it seems to me, would make this a priority.  I don’t know if the multi-national choir of Revelation is normative for every church here and now, but it is clue, a pointer, an insight into what the goal is.  We dare not be cavalier about something His Word has revealed as important to His plan!  Agreed?

To be clear, I did not disagree with the first post that said that just because a such is mono-cultural doesn’t mean it is discriminatory or bigoted.  I said that, on one hand, I understood what I thought he meant.  My church is not terribly multi-racial, although I am sure it grieves the heart of God and hinders our claims about being a reconciled body.  Still, although there may be issues of hospitality and lack of friendliness in any church that keeps folks who are different from feeling God’s grace in that place, I would never assume that about any congregation about which I have no right to judge.  I just see the trajectory and overall weight of the gospel call to be reconciled, and to be interested in cross-culturally outreach, peacemaking and ministry, and to stand against the sins of racisms, in such a way that it just makes theological sense to say that diverse bodies in proximity living out an observable friendliness is the goal.  Commanded?  Maybe not.  But it is the way of the coming Kingdom, so you might as well get with the program now, lest we be uncomfortable when the King of the nations returns and brings us together, forever healed of worldly divisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ross:  Hey, thanks for the inquiry about whether the Bible commands inter-racial worship.  I think I overstated that, and want to clarify.  Thanks for calling me on it.</p>
<p>Here’s my quick answer: I don&#8217;t think it is wise to try to base everything on just one passage.  So we study the whole counsel of God, and get the big picture.  For instance, at the big moment in redemptive history when the story began to include non-Jews, when the gospel went out to “the nations” (the greek word might better be translated ethnic groups) it became clear (as hinted at in Genesis) that God’s heart wanted to include into His people an ethnically diverse, trans-national People.  We call it now the &#8220;Great Commission&#8221; and it a pivotal moment to invite into God&#8217;s Body, those of other racial and religious backgrounds.  His Body was, by design and intent, to be multi-cultural, and we get a glimpse of how that is to happen in the miracle of Pentecost, the Spirit un-doing the curse of Babel.  If you do a study of the ethnic groups there (Acts 2:5-12) in that earliest inauguration of the Church, they were, in fact, people from all over, different races (Ethiopians, for instance, were very dark skinned, of course) and cultures.  God’s earliest expression of the church was notably multi-cultural, and that surely shows some indication of His plan.  It&#8217;s not a command, I admit, but it is an picture that is worth immitating, wouldn&#8217;t you agree?</p>
<p>Paul teaches often, clearly in Ephesians, that the “wall of separation” the divides Jew &amp; Gentile comes down, and in Christ, we are “brought near” to one another.  Much of the narrative subtext, the story behind the scenes, even in theologically dense books like Romans, is how the local body can get along when there is ethnic diversity present.  </p>
<p>In fact, resistance to the inclusion of others who are different than the early Jewish followers is what riles Paul the most, as he sees it (in Galatians) as falling back upon “another gospel.”  Uniform (in that case legalistic Jewish) worshipping bodies didn’t suit him, and he commission others to be “agents of reconciliation.”  To be cross-culturally active, to bring a diversity of folk to faith, to live in proximity so the world can see how we are reconciled, is part of the model of the early church.  I was wrong to say we are “commanded” to have multi-ethnic worship.  I think it is undeniable. though, that God desires His people to be witnesses (living examples) to His reconciling work.  I suppose various races, ages, classes and cultural styles don’t have to worship together, but we sure better be showing the world that we are in community together, reconciled and united, or we are failing to show the watching world what the Body truly is.   We are commanded to be reconciled, to God and each other, and that clearly, especially in this time and era when racial antagonisms seem to be so prevalent, means somehow working on racial reconciliation, to point to what God intends, and to illustrate the beauty of His ways.</p>
<p>Many think that we get clues to God’s desires from our imagination of what the final consumation is like, and clearly, the end is multi-cultural.  In Revelation 5:9-10 &amp; 13, there is a multi-ethnic choir, drawn together from among the tribes.  I don’t think it is a cheap shot to say that since we will be in close worshipping proximity with multi-cultural, trans-national peoples for all of eternity, we ought to start practicing now!  Or, to put it differently, if that is God’s heart, His holy intent, the way He wants it to be in His perfect, everlasting  Kingdom, then is that not some indication of His heart, now?  We may not be directly commanded, but a heart that burns with the things of God’s reign, the way He wills it to be, it seems to me, would make this a priority.  I don’t know if the multi-national choir of Revelation is normative for every church here and now, but it is clue, a pointer, an insight into what the goal is.  We dare not be cavalier about something His Word has revealed as important to His plan!  Agreed?</p>
<p>To be clear, I did not disagree with the first post that said that just because a such is mono-cultural doesn’t mean it is discriminatory or bigoted.  I said that, on one hand, I understood what I thought he meant.  My church is not terribly multi-racial, although I am sure it grieves the heart of God and hinders our claims about being a reconciled body.  Still, although there may be issues of hospitality and lack of friendliness in any church that keeps folks who are different from feeling God’s grace in that place, I would never assume that about any congregation about which I have no right to judge.  I just see the trajectory and overall weight of the gospel call to be reconciled, and to be interested in cross-culturally outreach, peacemaking and ministry, and to stand against the sins of racisms, in such a way that it just makes theological sense to say that diverse bodies in proximity living out an observable friendliness is the goal.  Commanded?  Maybe not.  But it is the way of the coming Kingdom, so you might as well get with the program now, lest we be uncomfortable when the King of the nations returns and brings us together, forever healed of worldly divisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5334</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5334</guid>
		<description>Hey Byron...nice post. If that&#039;s you&#039;re &quot;quick answer&quot; then you need to write books. 
 
I hear what you&#039;re saying and agree entirely that the future kingdom will be totally multi racial unless the new bodies the Lord gives us are somehow race neutral. If church&#039;s are deliberately separating themselves from other races (not sure how that could be done) then I also agree that it would grieve the Lord. But the way I see it is that most Church&#039;s are in an area that is dominated by a particular race hence the predominance of that race at a particular church. Be it a white church or a black church, I don&#039;t think church&#039;s bar people from attending based on race. Usually people self segregate based on stylistic differences. Black church&#039;s are usually more emotive and white church&#039;s could be thought of as stodgy to someone used to a black church.  
 
A week ago my pastor, who by the way is marrying a black women, invited a friend of his who is a pastor in Boston to give the sermon. He is a black man who was originally from Ghana. I was first aware of his presence during worship. He was loud and enthusiastic which was great. He inspired me to transend my whiteness and take it up a notch. His sermon was what you would expect from black preacher in terms of his &quot;can I get an amen&quot;, etc. It was a great sermon so I was giving him his amens. But I knew that the audience he was preaching to was very different than what he was probably used to. We&#039;re not accustomed to being so interactive. That being said, everybody I spoke to (all white) loved him. 
 
The only way racial animosity will cease in this world is if we stop talking about this chimera of &quot;racism.&quot; I refuse to use the word racism or racist, because I know of no people that actually believe that they&#039;re race is superior to another. I know they exist, but they&#039;re such a small minority as to be irrelevent. But the charge of racism is a powerful weapon and those that wield it are un-likely to stop doing so.  
 
 
 
 
I </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Byron&#8230;nice post. If that&#039;s you&#039;re &quot;quick answer&quot; then you need to write books.</p>
<p>I hear what you&#039;re saying and agree entirely that the future kingdom will be totally multi racial unless the new bodies the Lord gives us are somehow race neutral. If church&#039;s are deliberately separating themselves from other races (not sure how that could be done) then I also agree that it would grieve the Lord. But the way I see it is that most Church&#039;s are in an area that is dominated by a particular race hence the predominance of that race at a particular church. Be it a white church or a black church, I don&#039;t think church&#039;s bar people from attending based on race. Usually people self segregate based on stylistic differences. Black church&#039;s are usually more emotive and white church&#039;s could be thought of as stodgy to someone used to a black church. </p>
<p>A week ago my pastor, who by the way is marrying a black women, invited a friend of his who is a pastor in Boston to give the sermon. He is a black man who was originally from Ghana. I was first aware of his presence during worship. He was loud and enthusiastic which was great. He inspired me to transend my whiteness and take it up a notch. His sermon was what you would expect from black preacher in terms of his &quot;can I get an amen&quot;, etc. It was a great sermon so I was giving him his amens. But I knew that the audience he was preaching to was very different than what he was probably used to. We&#039;re not accustomed to being so interactive. That being said, everybody I spoke to (all white) loved him.</p>
<p>The only way racial animosity will cease in this world is if we stop talking about this chimera of &quot;racism.&quot; I refuse to use the word racism or racist, because I know of no people that actually believe that they&#039;re race is superior to another. I know they exist, but they&#039;re such a small minority as to be irrelevent. But the charge of racism is a powerful weapon and those that wield it are un-likely to stop doing so. </p>
<p>I</p>
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		<title>By: Shell</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5324</link>
		<dc:creator>Shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5324</guid>
		<description>Ingrid, ditto on appreciating your comment.  I&#039;m tuned in to Trinity&#039;s Maundy Thursday service right now, to see what it&#039;s all about. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ingrid, ditto on appreciating your comment.  I&#039;m tuned in to Trinity&#039;s Maundy Thursday service right now, to see what it&#039;s all about.</p>
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		<title>By: Sabina</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5305</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5305</guid>
		<description>Ingrid, I appreciate your comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ingrid, I appreciate your comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Cartwright</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5303</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Cartwright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5303</guid>
		<description>I think what people called &#039;hateful&#039; was, well, hateful......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what people called &#8216;hateful&#8217; was, well, hateful&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Cartwright</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5302</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Cartwright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5302</guid>
		<description>Good article here. . . 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=59340

Some interesting information from Obama&#039;s first book - a rather &#039;inconvenient truth&#039; since it is autobiographical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article here. . . </p>
<p><a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=59340" rel="nofollow">http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=59340</a></p>
<p>Some interesting information from Obama&#8217;s first book &#8211; a rather &#8216;inconvenient truth&#8217; since it is autobiographical.</p>
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		<title>By: Byron Borger</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2008/03/19/choice-selections-from-barack-obamas-speech-on-race/comment-page-2/#comment-5301</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron Borger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.wordpress.com/?p=300#comment-5301</guid>
		<description>John,

As I said over out our small blog, I am feeling raw and tired from speaking about this so much these past weeks, but it is so important.  I thank you for your bold link to O&#039;s speech, and am glad to see your readers chiming in.  It is good to talk about this stuff, although I would hope readers would think carefully before blasting.  

For instance, why call Pastor Wright&#039;s prophetic denunciation of social sin &quot;hateful.&quot;  He regularly talks about loving one&#039;s opponents!   Well, maybe Jeremiah was called angry, and they arrested any number of Hebrew prophets when they said ugly things about the government that the religious folk thought was ordained by God but, as we know, wasn&#039;t usually very faithful.  And God raised up prophets and poets to use very strong language against them!   It just seems to me that if we were immersed in the Scriptures, we&#039;d have a somewhat better balance about this.   Those who take offense to strong talk must not be reading the same Bible I see, which is often wild and controversial and passionate and complicated.

Somebody said, above, that it may not matter if we don&#039;t have integrated churches.  On one hand, I understand that writer&#039;s hope that we love one another, and that deep and respectful relationships are more important than just attending worship together.  Except, of course, the Bible commands inter-racial worship, and much of the New Testament is about Jews &amp; Gentiles being reconciled.  It seems like God intends for ethnic diversity to provide what Brenda Salter McNeill calls in her new book, &quot;a credible witness.&quot;  

I list a handful of other helpful Christian books on this topic at the BookNotes blog which you have on occaions been kind enough to commend.  Many some of your readers might want to study this a bit more, with teachable spirits, from authors who can guide us wisely into deeper conversations.

Check out www.heartsandmindsbooks.com/blog/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>As I said over out our small blog, I am feeling raw and tired from speaking about this so much these past weeks, but it is so important.  I thank you for your bold link to O&#8217;s speech, and am glad to see your readers chiming in.  It is good to talk about this stuff, although I would hope readers would think carefully before blasting.  </p>
<p>For instance, why call Pastor Wright&#8217;s prophetic denunciation of social sin &#8220;hateful.&#8221;  He regularly talks about loving one&#8217;s opponents!   Well, maybe Jeremiah was called angry, and they arrested any number of Hebrew prophets when they said ugly things about the government that the religious folk thought was ordained by God but, as we know, wasn&#8217;t usually very faithful.  And God raised up prophets and poets to use very strong language against them!   It just seems to me that if we were immersed in the Scriptures, we&#8217;d have a somewhat better balance about this.   Those who take offense to strong talk must not be reading the same Bible I see, which is often wild and controversial and passionate and complicated.</p>
<p>Somebody said, above, that it may not matter if we don&#8217;t have integrated churches.  On one hand, I understand that writer&#8217;s hope that we love one another, and that deep and respectful relationships are more important than just attending worship together.  Except, of course, the Bible commands inter-racial worship, and much of the New Testament is about Jews &amp; Gentiles being reconciled.  It seems like God intends for ethnic diversity to provide what Brenda Salter McNeill calls in her new book, &#8220;a credible witness.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I list a handful of other helpful Christian books on this topic at the BookNotes blog which you have on occaions been kind enough to commend.  Many some of your readers might want to study this a bit more, with teachable spirits, from authors who can guide us wisely into deeper conversations.</p>
<p>Check out <a href="http://www.heartsandmindsbooks.com/blog/" rel="nofollow">http://www.heartsandmindsbooks.com/blog/</a></p>
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