I became a Christian very suddenly (and out of freakin’ nowhere) when I was 38 years old.
At that time, I was working in the “Office Services” department of a large law firm. My sole co-worker in that department was a lesbian named Joan Finch.
To a lot of Christians, of course — just as with a lot of people generally — someone’s being gay or lesbian can register as a Fairly Large Deal. But I had been around gays and lesbians all my life, and had no schema for understanding a person’s sexual orientation as having anything whatsoever to do with their moral character, or their status relative to God, or anything like that. Any such concept was foreign to me. All I knew was that some gays and lesbians were awful people, and some were noble, wise, kind people whom it was impossible not to love. Same as anyone else. People are people.
I’d had gay friends all of my life. Real friends. Best friends. As obnoxious as it is to stereotype, I think it’s safe to say that generally, gays and lesbians have suffered for being gay and lesbian: just about all my gay friends, for instance, have countless stories about getting regularly beaten-up as kids by … well, by just about everyone around them. Schoolmates. Siblings. Dads. Crosswalk guards. Dog-walkers. Whomever.
Growing up gay or lesbian in America is just a tough row to hoe, period. If you think it’s not, then … then you’re just not paying attention to life.
And that gays and lesbians have generally suffered in their lives means that they are generally sensitive to the suffering of others. And generally that makes them kind, compassionate, and emotionally insightful. It makes them empathic. Which is why I have generally found gays and lesbians rewarding to hang out with.
And I had most definitely found that to be true of Joan Finch.
Joan Finch rocks like Gibraltar. She is one of the two or three funniest people I’ve ever known. She’s deadly witty. And man, can she do voices. She’s an almost startlingly accurate mimic.
Working with Joan Finch was like working in the middle of the funniest TV show ever.
Plus, that girl works. And because she works as hard as she does, Joan inspired me to work harder than I was naturally inclined to (at that job, anyway). Her abiding sense of excellence and responsibility compelled me to step up my own game. Her example turned me into a better, more conscientious employee.
I had my Big Fat Christian Conversion Experience at (of all places!) work, on a Friday that Joan had taken off. When she returned to work the following Monday, I waited until our usual morning busyness ebbed, and then broke the news to her that since she had last seen me, I had become (of all things!) a Christian.
A look of genuine concern came across her face.
“Oh, no,” she said.
“What is it?” I said. “What’s wrong?”
“Now you’re going to hate me.”
“What? What are you — why in the world would I hate you?”
“Because Christians hate gays and lesbians,” said Joan. She looked heartbroken. “Don’t you know that?”
“They do? We do? Why?”
“Because it’s in the Bible,” she said. “I grew up in the church. I know. Part of the whole Christian deal is to hate gays and lesbians.”
She turned away from me.
“You must be wrong about that,” I implored. I put my hand on her back. “You must be.”
“I’m not,” she said, stepping away from me. “You wait. You’ll see.”
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hi. i just wanna say that you’ve been helping my dad sort through a lot since i came out to him, and me as well. it’s hard to hold on to my faith in today’s church, and in the whole “gay culture” just like it must be hard trying to come to terms with having a lesbian daughter (even if you are accepting and supportive.)
so! all that to say thank you, keep it up and rock on.
Well, what a sweet note to send me. Thank you very much for this. I’m sure you and your dad will make it through this bit of adjustment just fine. Of course he’s welcomed to write me directly if he’d like. Thanks again for this love.
hi. i just wanna say that you’ve been helping my dad sort through a lot since i came out to him, and me as well. it’s hard to hold on to my faith in today’s church, and in the whole “gay culture” just like it must be hard trying to come to terms with having a lesbian daughter (even if you are accepting and supportive.)
so! all that to say thank you, keep it up and rock on.
Hey John,
Thought i should have made a comment on this blog.
This 'hate' of lesbians and gays is by far worse in Jamaica than it is in the USA. We have an extremely homophobic culture. They even beat gays here (certainly its against the law to beat them but ppl still do it and they are not punished for it). It is so entrenched in our culture that it seems the christians are also blinded by the general reaction to a gay person. I beleive that having intercourse with someone of the same sex is a sin, but we dont beat and kill people for fornication and adultery. and in any case two wrongs dont make a right, and murder is definitley a wrong.
I pray that persons who are gay will be seek and receive deliverance, but christians should be a source of help, not a threat.
I'm posting this after the stunning passing of Proposition 8 in California, which as far as I'm concerned proves what Joan was saying. That enough Christians have enough intolerance of gays to be able to deny us our constitutional rights. Rights that should be guaranteed, and not able to be taken way by the 'will of the people'. So good luck with all your righteousness and prayer, I'll stick with the reality of being gay and imperfect. I don't hate all christians but I sure am angry with a whole bunch of them. In fact I'm angry with any of them that voted Yes on Prop 8 to deny me the same rights they enjoy. And imagine how it must feel to be gay in Arkansas right now, hoping to adopt a child. Have a nice freakin' day.
Oh, dont hate all christians- John's pretty nice. A little out there, but good intentions. And… Anita is okay. (She's a little out there too, but dont tell her) lol And there's some more, but I cant remember them.
After reading these posts, I think I’ve come to hate ‘Christians’. I’m Christian, and I’m gay, and reading what other Christians say about gays being ‘detestable’…it makes me sick and angry.
Christians these days aren’t ‘Christ-like’ at all.
I know. I know. There's little point in saying this again having already said it way up at comment 2 but I'm just going to throw it out into the universe anyway, and since I type around 100 words a minute it's no big time investment on my part. Through all the comments, of which I've read all and appreciated most, we continue to refer to two categories of people; Christians and gays and lesbians and while I appreciate the following comment won't be acceptable for some, I say it anyway because it's a reality. There are a vast number of people who've chosen the Christian faith and happen to be gay and when we speak of Christians and gays and lesbians as two separate groups we not only ignore those who stand in both locations but it implies that gays and lesbians as an entire group are all people without faith. Again I realize this will be argued by a few that these are mutually exclusive terms and a few others will argue that it's a nitpicky point but when you happen to believe in Jesus as your Savior and you're gay, it's no small point and neither is it mutually exclusive.
You know, John, I didn't know I was supposed to hate gays and lesbians either as a Christian. And, you know, I don't. I don't hate anyone for whatever lifestyle they live, because I know they didn't choose it. I have several gay and lesbian friends. So what, right? Just as I am colorblind when it comes to race (we aren't black or white or brown or red… we're the HUMAN race!), a person's sexual orientation, identity or whatever the heck it's called doesn't matter to me. What DOES matter to me is their worth as a person. Who am I to judge anyone? Of course, I'm not perfect and when I find myself judging someone, I feel terrible about it, because that's not who I am.
I'd like to think that God gave me a brain and free will to make my own decisions. "Hate" is such a strong word.
It hurts me that your friend thought that you would automatically hate her because now you were part of something that she recognized as being hateful against people like her. It's a stereotype like all Italians belong to the mob (we don't).
So what happened after that? After the end of your story? Did you get things straightened out, or did she leave the company? or what?
What about all the Christians who have put to death what the Bible deems sinful? Are they foolish? They do it because they know Christ said to pick up your cross and deny yourself.
One of the posters above disparaged Paul and thought the Bible would be much better without his letters and the New Testament should only have the Gospels included. He must not have read much of them, because some of the things Jesus says are sobering to say the least. "Better to pluck out your eye then to enter into Hell with both eyes intact…" Same goes for the hands.
I myself have struggled my whole life with a particular sexual "kink". It's not important what it is, but it is something that is been with me since I can remember. Since I've been born again, the Holy Spirit has convicted me of this sin and through Gods grace have stopped practicing this sin, but it's still in my makeup and will always be there trying to manifest.
I've failed a 1000 times at least and God always has forgiven me, but He has never said "that's ok you were born with this…don't worry about it, just be a good person." If you are practicing anything that is clearly a sin, with no plan on repenting of it then you are in a grave place spiritually. Just because the world and people who say they are Christians will tell you there's no need to repent doesn't make it so. I pray somebody who reads this will be prompted to consider turning to Jesus and asking Him to help you overcome the bondage you are in.
God Bless
John, I didn't read any of the other comments for fear that something said would make me angry. I was heartbroken by this post. I read it on Sunday and spent the rest of the day in reflection about how I would feel if I found out a friend of mine was gay. I wouldn't want to lose them. I hope you were able to mend the fence and in case Joan reads your blog …
We don't all hate gay people. Sometimes we just need to be reminded of God's infinite love in spite of differences.
Hope you don't mind I borrowed an excerpt of this post for a post of my own. Thank you for showing us your life so we can stop and examine our own.
Much Love!
My brother died of aids in 2002 and he was gay. I loved him growing up and was there when he took his last breath. This is not to say that I agreed with his lifestyle just as I would disaggree with the lifestyle of anyone who was a gossiper or any number of sinful behaviors we could name. We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I cringe when I see churches in the media with signs stating God Hates fags.
God hates no one what he hates is sin,and we all have it. I always reming myself of the old saying, But by the Grace of God there go I. As christians we must always rely on Love to guide us which means because of what Christ's death on Calvary has done for us all we have no room to judge, no stone to throw and we can and must give the same love Christ gave to us when dying on the cross.
To People like Zach….For By GRACE are we saved…. All your preaching of the old testament and the law is foolish…Christ became the law when he gave his life for us…to save us.. he will make of us what he wants us to be…he will help us when we fall…and you will sin you are sining when you judge and do not love God's children as he does…God the Father is the only judge..Christ will defend us…that is why he died for us…the greatest commandment is to LOVE as Jesus loves us.
Do not get so tied up in legalism that you forget the only important thing to Love Jesus with all you heart…to love all men/women..he will take care of everything else.
Sheryl: Thank you, I think I needed to be reminded of that–to pray that people are drawn closer to God, not that God change people the way 'I' think they should be. 'Walk by faith, not by sight.'
I have been a Christian for 16 years and have had and do have many friends who are gay. A few years ago, I took an opportunity to begin to pray for one dear friend whose name was Jim.
As I fervently prayed for Jim to be delivered from his lifestyle of homosexuality, I felt the Lord stop me. So I stopped and waiting. Ever so softly I sensed the Lord whisper to my spirit……"Is that his deepest need?"
"No, Lord", I humbly whispered back, "his deepest need is more of You".
I was humbled that day and reminded that our duty as Christians is to bring people to Jesus. He is the savior and lover of their souls. Jesus can deal with each person as He so chooses and in His timing. He is the Lord, after all.
No, Joan had no fear I’d try to convert her. She knew me better than that. She was upset because she believed it inevitable that as I grew into the Christian way of thinking and being, I’d come to consider her as someone who was less than she should or could be.
For those new or newish to my blog, I should have said I’m now 50 years old; but this incident happened 13 years ago. Joan and I remained close while we worked together, and then drifted apart after I left that job to persue life as a writer. That’s … about it.
I was at a wedding all day yesterday, and so am just now seeing these comments. Thanks for all of them; they’re extremely thoughtful and insightful. They make for some splendid, and in some cases very touching, reading.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Well there it is, plain and simple. There is no way around it. This is why a lot of people believe that being Christian is synonymous with hating homosexuality. I think Joan’s response in this situation was perfectly understandable. As a person who was raised in the church she would have been fully aware of the Bible’s views towards homosexuality. You don’t throw around the word “detestable” (or “abomination” KJV) without expecting the word “hatred” soon to follow.
Now I know a lot of Christians would say, “Well I do not hate Joan, But I indeed do hate what she does”. Hate the sin but not the sinner. But this is a bit of an impossible statement. Can you honestly say that you can love someone who does something you hate? Can you love Charlie Manson while he has killed so many people? Or for an example that is in a more biblical context. Could you love Satan even though he has committed so many sins? Even God got pissed at him and cast him into hell.
On the other hand we have the classic tragic hero. Someone who does commits a sin out of necessity. Sort of like Jean Valjean out of Les Miserables who steals a loaf of bread to survive. We can love this sinner and hate their sin because the sinner also hates their sin.
But what if we have someone who does something that you consider a sin. Such as being a homosexual, getting a divorce, worshipping the wrong god, or just plowing with an ox and a donkey yoked together Deuteronomy 22:10. But they do not see what they are doing to be a sin as you do? And in addition to that they say that they could not stop being who they are? In this case the sinner and the sin have become so connected that it would be impossible to separate the two. This would make it exceedingly difficult to hate the sin and not the sinner.
What if the Bible had a verse saying that it was bad to be too short or too tall? Or that you wouldn’t be welcome at church if you had suffered some sort of genital injury Deuteronomy 23:1. Or what if the Bible said it was bad to have the wrong color of skin? I am not saying that it does (we don’t have to go into the Curse of Ham here) but if it did, could we separate the sin from the sinner? From the moment they are born they would be damned to hell. On top of that their very existing would be a manifestation of that sin in and of itself. They would truly be an abomination unto the Lord.
I got the same look of detestability from a pair of missionaries I met a while ago in college. They were going round the dorms trying to bag as many heathens as they could in one day as their youth group was leaving the next day. They had 6 hours between the morning and afternoon to go around 240+ dorm rooms. This meant that they had a minute and a half per person to try to change someone’s religion. Actually it comes out to 45 seconds a person if you want to count roommates, but on with the story. I told them that my beliefs were the result of years of decision making, logic, and observations of the world as a whole. I had read more of their Bible than they had, and that a minute and a half long speech about whatever happened to be in their little pamphlets was not going to change my mind. And that’s when I could see it in their eyes. The two missionaries had realized that no matter what they said to me, I was not going to convert to their religion. They could no longer hate the sin and not the sinner as the sinner and the sin were irrevocably intertwined.
“Well I guess it’s your choice if you want to go to hell or not.” No matter how hard I looked I could not feel the presence of this god they talked about, I didn’t think it was a matter that I had a choice on.
I had never really realized this until now but this is why it is vitally important to Christians that homosexuality is a choice rather than something you are stuck with. If people are born gay then they cannot change their ways. And as such they could never enter the Christian heaven. You can see this in comment 18 “You don’t hold non-club members to a club’s rules. They live by their own club’s rules.” It’s OK to be gay because you are not a member of the club. You cannot be gay and a club member at the same time. And only members of the club are saved.
There seems to be a reoccurring theme among the Christian comments I have been reading. They start by saying how tolerant of gay people they are and then follow up by stating an intent to convert the gay person, or at the very least, a distaste for the way they are now. Comment 11 “I hope Joan gets to meet Christ” as if she hadn’t already, after having grown up in the church. Comment 14, “Our job is to love people into a knowledge of the Truth”. Comment 25 “But since he told me AFTER I learned that it wasn’t right to be a gay or lesbian, I was completely speechless. I didn’t know what to say.”. I especially liked comment 13 “Is homosexuality part of God’s plan? No. The Bible is pretty clear on that. However, you can still totally love a person, regardless of their sexual orientation!” … “And when I speak of love, it’s not the twisted love that the world hypocritically preaches. This love is divine love. Love that can only come from a love for and from our God.” You will never know love until you become a Christian.
I’d hate to say it but it seems that this love and tolerance for others seems to be conditional on some future promise of conformity. As if you will only love a gay person on the condition that they will stop being gay one day. Now John, I would like to say that after reading your articles I have a fairly clear sense of your personality, and I would hope that I already know the answer to this. But I hope that after converting to Christianity you haven’t embarked on some sort of holy mission to straighten out Joan?
Being neither a homosexual or a Christian, I don’t really have a stake in whether or not being gay is a choice. But I do have an amusing low cost way to find out. If being gay is a choice, then logically being straight is also a choice. First of all you will need to find someone who is a heterosexual. Not just medium straight, but really really straight. Now go on the internet and find some nudie pictures of people of the same gender. Have this person look at these pictures for a while until they decide that they could go for some of that right about now.
If this happens then you just proved that it is possible to choose to be gay. Don’t worry about the person that you just turned into a homosexual. You can just find some nudie pictures of people of the opposite gender, to turn them back again.
This is one of the best comments I have ever read! I know that it was written in 2008, but I would like your permission to share the comment in my local freethinkers group. We have a few liberal Christians in the group, and I would like to hear their responses to what you have written. I couldn’t agree more with what you’ve said!!
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