The other day I posted a piece called Jesus the Decider: Who Gets Into Heaven?, in which I recounted a conversation I’d overheard between a proselytizing Christian and “a guy who Wasn’t Having Any,” whom I referred to as WHA.
WHA’s Big Point was that there is no logical basis for Christians to so heavily rely upon John 14:6 (“No one comes to the Father except through me”) as proof that only Christians can get into heaven or reside with God in the afterlife. His contention was/is that the words of Christ right there don’t actually say that. “[John 14:6] doesn’t say you have to be a Christian in order to get into heaven,” said WHA. ”All it says is that Jesus decides who does and doesn’t get into heaven. ‘You have to go through me to get into heaven’ isn’t the same as, “You have to be a Christian to get into heaven.’”
Anyway, read the whole piece if you’re interested. If you do, and are, you might then be interested to know that this morning WHA responded to the many responses left to him in the comments section of “Jesus the Decider.” WHA (whose real name is Ken H.) asked me to post the below, which is from him. (Warning: It’s a little rough. “Do you mind if I say what I really think?” Ken asked me. I answered him no, of course I don’t — and below is what I got. I figured I’d post it as is. Why not? We Christians can take it, yes? And should, maybe, even, a little.)
Hello, all. I want to thank you for your thoughtful input to my question about John 14:6. To be honest, I didn’t read much in what you wrote that directly dealt with my contention that Christians need to stop relying on John 14:6 as proof that heaven (assuming there is such a place) is the exclusive domain of Christians. That’s really all I was saying. I’ve had that quote thrown at me by Christians quite a lot, and I always think, “Yeah, but that quote doesn’t say that.” That can be a little frustrating. I do appreciate everyone who took the time to answer me, though.
As to the larger and I guess more basic question of why I and others like me find it so challenging to believe in your Christ, I’m sure I have nothing to say beyond anything I’m sure you’ve heard before. (In fact, what the non-Christians say in John’s excellent blog piece, “What Non-Christians Want Christians to Hear” pretty fully covers it. I think that post should be required reading for all Christians.) Personally — and in a nutshell — it’s the cosmic arrogance of Christians that turns me off. I have a natural resistance to any faith system that insists all other faiths are flat-out wrong: that’s such a crude position. It’s so brutally condescending, so terribly unhelpful in this time of societal strife and the terror born of fundamentalists’ passions. To insist that your religion is the only true religion is so profoundly disrespectful that it can’t smack of anything but an almost absurd immaturity.
You can’t say all concepts of God, and all systems of faith, and all personal encounters with the universal divine that aren’t grounded in the truth of Christianity are invalid, or inadequate, or sadly delusional, and expect anyone outside of your faith to take you seriously. On the face of it, such an attitude is just so … repellingly smug, for one. What child doesn’t think he’s the center of the world, and that his thoughts are the only thoughts that matter? It’s such an undeveloped attitude to take.
Also, this business with gays and lesbians being automatically condemned to hell? It’s like a joke from medieval times — only it’s not funny at all. The texts that Christians rely upon to condemn homosexuality can be legitimately understood as not condemning gays and lesbians at all. That the vast majority of Christians ignore that scholarship, ignore that understanding, ignore that fact, can’t help but serve as further proof that what so many Christians really want isn’t to spread the love and compassion of which Christ himself was such a champion, but to instead continue to use their ”faith” for no purpose more uplifting or wholesome than to fuel the judgemental, self-righteous, mean-spirited ego trip they’re on.
A lot of Christians are nothing more than spiritual bullies who go around using the Bible as a club. (And a lot aren’t, too, I know.) It’s weak. It’s embarassing. Finally, and mostly, it’s boring.
I know I’m sounding mean here, but I’m just trying to be succinct. My humble opinion, overall, is that Christians need to wake up, and start realizing how much of what they say and do has no more to do with the true spirit of Christ than Osama Bin Laden has to do with the true spirit of Islam.
Thanks for listening. I really, really appreciate it. One so often gets the very distinct feeling that Christians can only talk, and can never listen. I hope this time proves the exception. Thanks again.
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I completely agree with what he said and am so happy that you posted it!
Jeanine
Ken, Really appreciate you voicing your thoughts here.
The sad truth of it is, many of “us” will never see the truth behind your statements.
John, thank you for providing a space to make this conversation possible.
-Chase
"The texts that Christians rely upon to condemn homosexuality can be legitimately understood as not condemning gays and lesbians at all. That the vast majority of Christians ignore that scholarship, ignore that understanding, ignore that fact, can’t help but serve as further proof that what so many Christians really want isn’t to spread the love and compassion of which Christ himself was such a champion, but to instead continue to use their 'faith' for no purpose more uplifting or wholesome than to fuel the judgemental, self-righteous, mean-spirited ego trip they’re on."
John,
Rule #1: Never condemn a person, only condemn the sin. Like that old Sunday School adage goes: love the person, hate the sin.
It's the "hate the sin" that has gotten some innocent people into trouble lately. For example, consider the family therapist in California who said she would not counsel gays and lesbians for marriage (despite California's "legalization" of gay marriage) as she believed marriage was ordained by God as between a man and a woman. She believed that it was neither loving nor wise to counsel for something that God Himself would not advise.
And boy, did the poop hit the fan on that one. Almost no Christians stood by her. And talk about blacklisted…the political storm unleashed against her, the concerted effort against her character, her livelihood, shows that there is a price to be paid for following Christ.
In her life she saw most of the Christians (real world ones, not political pundits or pulpit thumpers) change "love the person, hate the sin" into "love the person, tolerate the sin".
Perhaps we should love the person by hating the sin. I hate pornography because it degrades women and men. I also hate pedophilia. I hate slavery.
Below is a take on the end result of homosexuality from one leader in the gay community (I found this from a commentator on Crosswalk — I'm sorry I can't attribute this properly).
A DIFFERENT APOLOGY
For 16 years, Michael Glatze was a gay leader who edited an award-winning magazine targeting gay youth and produced a PBS documentary on gay teen suicide. His advocacy among youth made him a media darling and earned him a National Role Model Award.
But in 2005, after speaking at Harvard, Michael began having doubts about the gay lifestyle and its affirming message. Feeling there was no one he could turn to for answers, he turned to God. That led to a life-changing discovery about homosexuality—it is anything but natural. Glatze explains,
[H]omosexual sex—and all other lust-based sex—is never satisfactory: It's a neurotic process rather than a natural, normal one . . . Homosexuality takes us out of our normal state, of being perfectly united in all things, and divides us . . . [it] allows us to avoid digging deeper, through superficiality and lust-inspired attractions. . . . As a result, countless miss out on their truest self, their God-given Christ-self.
Glatze goes on to describe his “coming out” (of the gay lifestyle) as “the most liberating, beautiful, and astonishing thing I've ever experienced in my entire life.”
Within days after the troika of “ex-gay survivors” publicized their apology, ex-gay Michael Glatze gave an apology of his own:
If I could take back some of the things I said [as a gay spokesperson], I would. Now I know that homosexuality is lust and pornography wrapped into one. . . . There is nothing that would give me more pleasure than to say the Truth about 'homosexuality' and atone for my sins in that regard . . . I hope I can share my story. I feel strongly God has put me here for a reason.
Are you saying that homosexuality is an acceptable alternative to marriage? You are happy with the legalization of same sex marriage? homosexuality is brokeness. It is never the will of God.
It’s been three years since you posted this. Do you still feel this way?
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