In response to the recent post of mine entitled Christian Marrying a Non-Christian? Marriage: FAIL, an atheist friend of mine, David B., wrote the following:
I’m a bona fide marriage expert. Not because I have some fancy Ivy League degree hanging on my wall, nor because I’m a published marriage counselor—no, I’m a marriage expert because I’ve been married twice. I’m a big believer in the school of you-don’t-know-it-until-you’ve-done-it. Having done it twice, I now know it twice as well. Hence, marriage expert.
My first marriage was to a lovely woman of like-spirituality. We were both humanists (which is a fancy term for do-gooder atheists) of Jewish descent. That marriage failed when she realized that she didn’t love me. ME! How could she not love me? You probably don’t know me, but I am very lovable. I know this, because my second wife, an even more lovely Christian woman named Rachel, told me so. Rachel also told me that our marriage is a resounding success, and I believe her. We both have no doubt that we will be together until we die, at which point we will be separated. According to her, I will go to hell and she will go to heaven—or, in my version, we will be dead. Either way, we won’t be together anymore, and that’s sad.
But how can this marriage really be a success? Rachel is a Christian and I am a heretical Jewish humanist. How can we fully be together when we don’t share the same spirituality? How can we unleash the full potential of our marriage if we have a spiritual chasm between us? How can we possibly understand each other when we approach life so differently? What will we teach the children? For Pete’s sake, think of the children! (If anyone knows Pete, or why he cares about the children, please let me know in the comments—oh, and tell him I want back my copy of ABBA Gold.)
As tempting as it was to ignore the problem of our differences and hope it went away, Rachel and I talked about it, and decided that since we valued our marriage too much to leave it to chance, we would be proactive about addressing our differences: we’d do it the hard way. What is it about Jews and Christians that they need to suffer to feel alive? Wait a minute, maybe we aren’t so different after all! No, that’s not it. We’re different. Might as well face it. We’re really, really different.
Women and men are different. Christians and people of other faiths are different. Christians of different denominations are different. Republicans and Democrats are different. Bostonians and San Diegans are different. Mice and men are different. Even Milli and Vanilli are different—in fact, they aren’t even themselves.
I am not a woman who was born in San Jose, CA, grew up on a farm in upstate New York, matured in Washington, has six siblings, and is passionate about her family and her faith. I never will be that woman, and while I can understand her, empathize with her, feel pretty in her clothes, and love her deeply, I will never really know the depths of her experiences or the convictions of her beliefs. No one will, except God (if you’re into that sort of thing). I don’t want to be her Savior, I want to be her husband. I want to spend every day getting closer to her and knowing her more, faith and all.
Everyone has faith of some kind, even atheists (we can’t prove there is no God, we simply believe there is no God). By recognizing your own faith, even if it’s belief in mammon—or as Washington Irving called it: “The Almighty Dollar”—you can understand how essential faith is to the core of our being. Everyone has the ability to relate to the fervent wholeness of faith, and to understand how it can permeate every aspect of one’s life. You don’t have to share the same faith to know how your spouse feels about their spiritual connection. It’s the universal feelings that come from faith, even if the faiths are different, that are the foundation from which you can connect, share, learn, and grow. Your marriage won’t fail over differences; there will always be differences. It will fail if you are not honest with each other, and lack respect for one another—spiritually or otherwise.
Marriage is a partnership. Each partner brings the best and the worst parts of themselves to their marriage, and the success or failure of their union depends on how they embrace the good and the bad. In a successful marriage, two people, who are different by virtue of being people, find the common ground on which they relate to each other, and use that as a foundation. They grow toward each other by learning about and respecting their differences, and then stay together by willingly meeting each other’s needs, whether they fully understand them or not. That last part, that really hard part—that’s love.
That love is what my interfaith marriage is all about. Rachel would call that the manifestation of God’s love and grace in our marriage. I call it my profound privilege to be able to spend every day of the rest of my life growing a little bit closer to my wife.
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I’ve read a lot of posts on this site about making theist/atheist dating relationships work. I’ve also read a lot about how these types of marriages can work. But my biggest question is how do you make a Christian/atheist courtship work? Especially if one believes in pre-marital celibacy and the other believes sex is vital to knowing whether or not you want to marry a person. One belief relies heavily on faith where the other belief is based on the need for evidence & experience to bring about certainty. Help…
The idea that theists and atheists cannot coexist is an imaginary line.
As a christian myself, married 7 yrs to an atheist, I can attest that mutual respect of each others individualism can and does supercede any devisivness between our opposing beliefs.
It would be great if you guys could post some websites or blogs here where we could read more viewpoints on how to make a theist/atheist marriage work. Just came out (of christianity, that is) after three years of reading and studying, and it’s not going so well. She’s angry.
I am dating a man who many would consider an atheist. He sometimes refers to himself as an agnostic. We have been in our relationship for over a year now. In the beginning I was torn about starting anything with him because of our faith differences. He has also expressed some fears on his end from past relationships. His lack of believe in God stems from his childhood. He was molested by a preacher as a child and it made him lose faith because he didn’t want to believe in a God that would allow something like that to happen to him.
I know all to well what the Bible says about being “unequally yoked and guarding your heart” but I know that I love this man. My relationship with God is important and I am trying now to rebuild my relationship with Him. Recently I have started to wonder about my choices and if I should continue down this road. I don’t want to give up on my relationship but I also don’t want to lose sight of God either. What i truly desire is to let the love of God shine through me for my boyfriend to see and know that God is love and that I love him. He respects my faith and I respect his. I trust that things will work out as they should.
Thank you for your post, i live Christ like and my boyfriend lives free of pain, judgement, redicule, etc.
I am an atheist and I am dating a Christian woman. I have read many webpages like this one looking for insights into the challenges.
After much reading I HAVE learned something from all of these posts and it is this, Paul’s advice in 2 Cor 6:14 is fairly good. “Do not be UNEQUALLY yoked with an unbeliever.” (then he goes on to spout a bunch of offensive insults regarding non-believers. (oh well, we unbelievers will turn the other cheek and forgive Paul) But the first bit is really good. It is not the connection between people of different faiths that Paul warns against but is the unequal connection.
To illustrate look at the original letter from David B and then look at the comment written by Macy. In the case of David B the couple are working with each other on an equal basis and treat each other with respect and it sounds like they may have a long lasting marriage. In the case that Macy described, her partner is behaving as if she does not matter, and honestly all that Christian decoration around the household probably starts to feel like a rebuke. I hope they can work through their differences before it’s too late.
In one case they are equally yoked, and in the other case they are unequally yoked. I think Paul was advising against commitments to non-believers where the believer is subservient to the will of the non-believer. I think that the same advise works both ways.
Very well said, Mike. Thanks.
Wow, i been searching for a blog like this, i am a christian and fell in love with an Atheist, we are doing so well in our new relationship that it seems scary to tell other christians because i do not want to hear the judgement. I believe a christian and atheris can mate and meet without religion, christianity isn’t about religion its about my relationship with God and his relationship is about his unbeliefe, non beleiver, we have respect, care, and hope for one another. I was married 3 times and all 3 profess to know God. But now i found this man, and he found me, we are happy.
this is such baloney!!!!!!!! His wife has to be one who’s a Christian but obviously not living it daily (working faithfully in ministry, reading, praying, fasting, etc)..not to judge but I just don’t see this as the truth–How can you love someone who won’t acknowledge your life giver, your redeemer, your healer, your very reason for being? that’s like me hooking up w/a guy who won’t acknowledge my natural dad at all–as if he didn’t exist at all. I just refuse to believe that she’s just THAT into God as this man claims.
I know these people personally. She’s as strong and convicted a Christian as exists. Her whole life is a Christian ministry. I have two other friends who are Christian pastors who are married to atheists. It’s not that big a deal.
John, in light of this, if you had to answer the original question again, would you answer it differently?
I was an atheist when we were married a couple of decades ago and still am, and now my husband has decided to pursue his Christian faith in a big way. I’m finding it very difficult to maintain any kind of balance — now there are crosses in every room, Jesus stuff all over the car, bibles everywhere. I don’t seem to have a voice in the situation. He expects me to shut up and let him do whatever he wants. Any objection on my part is met with a tidal wave of temper and hysteria. Clearly, he’s got emotional issues, but I’m doing my best to hold it together for the sake of the family, but I don’t know how much more I can take. I am perfectly fine with him pursuing his religion, but does that mean I have to live in a house decked out with religious paraphernalia? Also, when it comes to the kids, he only wants them to hear his side of the story, of course, and I’m supposed to say nothing at all about how I feel. What to do, what to do…
Answers like this are so awful and depressing. That you’d actually possess the arrogance to suggest that you *know better* about who this person *really* is as you read for 30 seconds on the internet used to infuriate me, but now I find it totally repulsive and understand why non-believers run from Christians as fast as they can. THe hubris is so astounding and yet we just let you say this kind of thing over and over again, make this kind of presumption over and over again and give you a pass. I’ve had enough.
i have found the letter written by David very inspiring. I would love to hear from Rachel. What words would she say to me as i am a christian and the man I am about to marry is an athiest? I love the Lord and Shane respects that. I am so uncomfortable with the feeling of how I am disappointing my God and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and that I am disobeying God in order to fulfill my own wants and desires to know and love Shane. Please my heart is hurting. I have read article after article of Christian urging me to flee. this is the first letter of hope and respect and encouragement.
Thanks,
I would love to hear from Rachel as well. I am also a Christian who is married to an atheist.
Hi, cheer up… people will confuse you, religion will confuse you, but if you have a relationship with the Living God, He’ll direct you personally. Only He can read hearts, only He holds the future in His hands, only HE can guide you. But you must be prepared to confront the truth. Ultimately, it is your Creator that you are answerable to. If He’s real, if He’s alive, what is HE telling you? Lay down a “fleece”, if you like, fast and pray, if you are so led, at the end of the day, if you are sincere and genuine in finding out God’s will for you, you will get your answers, AND peace, AND miracles.
Some Church folk will “parrot” the word, and one or two verses, but remember Hosea’s story… would Hosea’s contemporaries have thought he was hearing from God? What about the mother of Jesus… can you imagine her going off to a ladies’ church meeting and announcing her good news? In today’s culture, she’d have been locked up in a psychiatric ward.
Bottom line: if you’re a believer, and have a relationship with God, what is He telling you?
And to any dear “atheist” reading this… bear with us, what if we indeed hold a truth beyond your wildest imagination?
Wait a minute.
Atheist don’t belive there is no god.
We simply don’t belive in the idea of a god.
It’s not the same, those are completly diffrent issues.
Shhh… quiet down Can’t you see the sign? It says Stay off the Semantics (no matter how important – and mistaken – they are).
What a dysfunctional marriage..
EXACTLY!!!
The word “disfunction” should describe something that lacks function. Their relationship is very functional, it’s just not traditional or recommended. They have success and they will continue to have success. This man has an excellent example of Christ’s love in his life. I would not be suprised at all if he eventually accepts Christ himself. It’s certainly not uncommon for one spouse to lead the other to salvation.
Best wishes to the two.
Litesp33d, there are lies, bigger lies and then there is statistics. Properly interpreted statistics show that atheist divorce way more. In those numbers that base your claim, they just asked if you are divorced and what is your religious affliation. They didn't ask if you had been ever married. When that important question was asked atheists had way higher divorce rates.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=42582
Atheist divorce rates would be even higher if you counted cohabitation with mutual wanted child and break up after that.
It always makes me smile when I hear a religious person say something like
"The first church i went to was a cult"
Surely a cult is a religion whose beliefs differ from your own.
It therefore follows that ALL religions are cults.
When you have done comparative study of religions other than you own this becomes obvious.
I was christened but became more atheist as I read the Bible. After reading this book I don't know how anyone could worship this God of the Old Testament who is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully . And Jesus agreed with all the previous teachings.
Did you know the King James Bible was put together by a committee in the 1600's primarily tp prove King James had the divine right to govern England and Scotland at the same time? And this is offered as a divinely inspired text.
Statistically atheist based marriages end in divorce LESS often than religious ones presumably because at least one of the parties enters into the relationship with both eyes open to the reality of the commitment rather than with both eyes closed in prayer for god to make it all OK. And as there are no gods this explains a lot.
I’m certain a cult is not just a religion. Cults are harmful, both to human rights and spiritual wellness. Cults often have doctrine that perverts scripture or they use it to further a non-religious agenda. (Racial supremacy, political advantage, polygamy or money.) Occasionally, human suffering and even death result such as in Wacco, TX.
My Pastor once said:” The Bible is a very basic message. Anyone can read it or hear it and come to understand it. If someone has to explain it to you, watch yourself. You may be dangerously close to joining a cult.”
I just came upon this post randomly, and as a "most-of-the-time" christian married to a "pragmatic optimist with zero faith" (his words) it was pretty much exactly what I think I needed to read. Thanks!
I could'nt resists posting my few (okay more than that) sense worth. So here goes..I was brought up by two God-fearing parents and have always considered myself a Christian. The first Church my dad brought us to, was in actual fact a cult. That coupled with other circumstances led my family excluding my dad to stop going to Church. In the span of about 6 years I've prayed and built a relationship with God. However, my understanding of the Bible's teachings were shaky. Within those 6 years I met a non-Christian who truly loves me for who I am and for being a Christian. I was warned by others about getting into a relationship with a non-Christian but did not understand the degree of disapproval God and fellow Christians would have. My perspective was that I'd rather find a man who truly loves me and would take care of me than a Christian who doesnt (example of my parents). I started going to a different Church more than a year ago and am suddenly bombarded with the fact that my relationship with my boy friend is a sin. My boy friend has felt pressured (my fault) to convert and I know that scared him. But he loves me dearly nonetheless and does his best to understand me. We were both brought up in a traditional family where dating isnt really heard of and being in a relationship means that we have the intention to marry in mind. One thing good about this situation is that it has made me work hard on my faith because for him to understand, I must understand first. Thank you for your post it has given me hope. Although I will never stop hoping my boy friend will one day convert, Im glad im not alone in the journey of love and understanding that you and your wife and my boyfriend and I will embark on. Thank you.
I really liked your letter. I am in a very similar situation. I am the Christian and my husband is the Atheist. At first I was very sad of him and in a way I still am. I know God is in control and it is not my job to change him. It is my job to love him just the way he is:-)
thank you for your letter, i am a Christian dating an Atheist. i am happy, i was married 3 horrible times, and this new relationship is working for me. I want to know how to not allow judgemental friends and family member push me back into something that didn’t work.
I am so appreciative of your words. I needed this reminder…God IS in control. I’ve been so sad that my husband is a non-believer. This helped me. Thank you
Sarah wrote, It is sometimes hard to know where to draw the line between accepting and going against ones own beliefs, but it would be nice if more believers tried a little harder. I know there are a lot of well-meaning (or at least they think they are) Christians who do the exact opposite of their hearts intent – they turns people off and offend them.
I think you expressed quite well the difficulties my dear right-wing evangelical, fundamentalist, literal Bible thumping friends and relatives faced when they heard I was dating a Muslim. On one level I very much understood their frantic concern and earnest confrontations, and if our positions were reversed, I might have said many of the same things and perhaps worse. So that kept my offense in check, at least somewhat. But some rifts are permanent, and I feel that by making the choice to marry him in spite of all the opposition, I have weakened the close relationships I once had with many of my beloved people. I know my sisters both agonized with their consciences over whether or not to attend my wedding. They loved me and earnestly desired my happiness, but they were so thoroughly convinced that my decision to marry this man was a sin against God, and furthermore, they had a responsibility to their preteen daughters, to shelter them from exposure to my dreadful example, that it put them into a terrible quandry over whether or not to attend my wedding.
If I could have worn a millstone around my neck and plunged into the depths of the sea, I would have gladly done so, just to save my nieces from my poisoning influence and spare my relatives from all this agony over my decision. But no millstones were handy, and I really wanted to marry the guy, even if I half believed the dire warnings about hellfire and damnation. So I closed my eyes, plugged my ears, and walked down the aisle.
It was a ridiculous wedding ceremony, to be sure. I would have infinitely preferred to just do the deed in a courthouse somewhere–no guests, no fuss, no cake, no gifts. But my parents would not have considered me married unless I did so in front of God, so my tolerant, long-suffering husband-to-be and i sucked it up and agreed to the venue–a museum that USED to be a church (still had a big-ass cross hanging over us as we exchanged vows), officiated by an obnoxious minister chosen by my parents for no other reason than that he was originally from an African country that was home to a sizable population of Muslims. I don’t know why my parents figured this qualified him to officiate, but he agreed to it, and I suppose my parents didn’t think many other ordained ministers would, so he got the job. In the end, all that mattered was that we were legally and civilly married, and if it made my parents sleep better at night to know that it was a quasi-”Christian” wedding, then I suppose it was worth it.
We’ll mark the seventh anniversary this summer of our successful, happy marriage. I went through a period of anger about two or three years in, when I realized that my marriage was successful and happy. It really pissed me off to think that a lot of ideological rigidity would have prevented me from marrying this fabulous man. It seems to me that in today’s world of globalization and tolerance, the conservative commitment to doctrinal purity and ironclad sectarianism is a thing we should leave behind in the interest of modernization and enlightenment.
We now have two kids, even though we’re not at all sure how to raise them religiously. My husband practices a tolerant and inclusive Islam, and has never expected me to convert or change my beliefs. He respects the culturual values of my faith, and in fact these shared values make us very compatible as parenting partners. I support his faith practices, and encourge the kids to take part in his daily prayer rituals. We don’t eat pork–it’s not hard to avoid. That’s really about it. As far as what to teach them to believe–well, I like what some other posters in this thread have shared about child-rearing. I would like my kids to grow up in the understanding that different people believe different things about God, and that they needn’t have a religious label to have faith–or, if they do choose a label for themselves, it should be an educated and freewill adult choice rather than an inherited one they are stuck with and are obligated to carry along with the family name.
So I guess it is evident to the reader that I do not honestly beileve that my husband is damned to eternity to hell unless he recites the sinner’s prayer, nor will my children suffer the same fate unelss they believe the “correct” doctrines. I long ago concluded that evangelism was at best a benign nuisance, and at worst, offensive harrassment. I am grateful that my husband thinks it is sweet and touching when my relatives share their testimonies with him in their blatant efforts to convert him. He was really amused when I related to him what my mother once said, “I believe he MUST be a Christian because he acts so much like one.” He told me that his mother likewise believes that i must really be a Muslim because I’m such a nice person. If that sort of reasoning makes our marriage more reassuring for our mothers, then so be it. Our parents deserve the security and serenity of their insulated faiths, and we have no wish to disturb their peace.
It was really frightening at first to stake out my own uncharted path with no precedent to follow. I didn’t know anyone else in my broad evangelical experience who married outside the faith as I did (unless you count the one cousin who married a Catholic). But now that I’m “out”, I can’t imagine ever wanting to get back in. or wanting my children to be raised in that cocoon. I feel that I am now finally an adult and am responsible for my own independent thinking. I want my children to be well educated critical thinkers, fluent in a constellation of faiths and cultures that represent our global community.
What a wonderfully respectful and thoughtful discussion.
My husband and I both came from Jewish families – his parents were Orthodox and mine were somewhere in between Conservative and Reform. His father was … well … let's say very zealous, and would tolerate no point of view that didn't match his own; his mother believed in doing whatever it took to make other people happy, even if that meant living according to principles that were not one's own.
My husband rejected the Orthodox "rules" and became an ecumenical free-lancer; whereupon his father disowned him. I eventually decided that while I'm neutral about the existence of "God," I do not believe what people say about "God." My parents never tried to "convert" me to their way of thinking, mostly because they treasured each other's invdividuality and therefore could do no less than respect mine.
So I guess that means he and I are in a "mixed" marriage. But we've been married for nearly 53 years, and while we've disagreed about many things – we argue a lot about politics, for example – we've never fought over religion, because we both agree that religion is personal and each of us is entitled to our own views.
We didn't fight over how to raise our children, either. We just let them know that it was okay for their parents to have different religious beliefs, and that it was okay for them to differ with us, too.
Please notice I haven't used the word "faith" at all in this context. Like Kay, I reject the idea that unless I adhere to a set of tenets handed down from above, and practice certain rituals according to "the book" – no matter what! – I'm doomed to eternal damnation, or whatever the punishment du jour happens to be. Unlike Kay, though, I'm still fine with interreligious dating and marriage. It seems to me that stable and loving marriages are based on mutual respect that includes appreciation for each other's differences even though one might not fully understand those differences. I can't imagine being married to a man who couldn't respect my convictions even though mine don't align perfectly with his own, and I sure don't like being around people who insist theirs is the only way to think, believe, worship (or not) and behave.
First of all, allow me to add my appreciation of this post to the already long list of fans. This is an issue I was confronted with a while back and still never came to a solid answer on, but reading your insights – and the astounding love and respect that exists in your relationship with your wife – was very insightful indeed. I agree with some of the comments that it would, typically, be something sad (at least for a Christian) to know that the person they loved would not be spending eternity with them. I've heard the theory that those in heaven will no longer care, but I don't know if I agree with it or not, and frankly the thought of spending my entire life with that knowledge in the back of my mind would be painful for me, if I truly loved the person (which I would have to, to marry them, right?)
I would also like to add here a response to Kay and Kisseliss: I'm not sure how much this will mean to either of you, but I would like to express a very sincere apology to you both for your life experiences with Christians – the harshness and judgment you've dealt with at their hands/words…etc. As a Christian, I try to be as accepting of all people as I can possibly be. It is sometimes hard to know where to draw the line between accepting and going against ones own beliefs, but it would be nice if more believers tried a little harder. I know there are a lot of well-meaning (or at least they think they are) Christians who do the exact opposite of their hearts intent – they turns people off and offend them.
For my own part, I am still a young person and still learning the nitty-gritty details of the Christian faith. I was raised in it, but I also came to a point where my intelligence begged for a more solid foundation than simply what my parents had been feeding me. I can say with all sincerity that I believe in an Omniscient Creator who loves me just as a am, regardless of how well I do or don't do in this life, so long as I love Him and am doing my best to live a life that is pleasing to Him, and that I came to this decision regardless of my family.
To Kisseliss specifically, go to the Word. Look through the scriptures to support your choices, or at the very least to use in defense against the way your family is treating you. I know from experience that it is very hard to be in discord with ones family, but if you are using God's word to show them how their treatment of you and your boyfriend is wrong, or how the choices you are making for yourself and your child may be right, they cannot stand against you. If they will not support you out of love, then they (if they truly believe themselves to be Christians) will support you because it is written in the Bible.
This is one of the most beautiful posts I’ve ever seen on the nature of Love. Thank you! You give me hope that there are truly great men out there.
I was loosely raised Southern Baptist & Lutheran. The hellfire & damnation in Baptism turned my mother & myself off completely . We eventually found a Lutheran church with a really great pastor. He didn’t “preach” he just talked to us about finding our own way while following not merely the letter of the law, but it’s spirit. He commented that the letter of the law was often written for that particular time, and that we should study the Law, and find it’s deeper meaning, the underlying truth about what was required of us, and apply that to our lives as best we could. After the hellfire and damnation of a “literal word of God” church, this was liberating. I had always had serious reservations about a number of Christian doctrines, but the message of this pastor lightened my heart, and made me reconsider. This was in the South, in the late 70s. To my young and fairly sheltered eyes, other than Christian and Jewish, there really wasn’t much out there. I had heard of Buddhism and Islam, but no details, and no knowledge about where to go to learn more. When I left home, that church was too far away, and I was again exposed to the kind of Christianity I despised. After doing more study on the core concepts, I decided I couldn’t accept the dichotomies. It didn’t fit. I knew what I felt & believed to be true about the nature of deity in my heart & soul, I just didn’t know what name to put it under. I left, and I’ve never looked back.
A few years later I found pagansim, and it really fit. No pressure, no proselytizing, no threats of eternal torment, no notion that we mere humans will automatically make bad choices unless were are told what to do by some priest. I wasn’t being told to surrender my Will to some nebulous deity with a brutally violent history of sexism, persecution, and abuse. I wasn’t being told I had to obey some scripture whose origins are questionable at best. I was encouraged to think for myself, to figure out what I wanted, what I valued, and how to live in a healthy and responsible way. Not because some Deity decreed it, but because it contributed to my overall health & happiness, and gave me some peace in this crazy world we live in.
I did a lot of research, the thought patterns and how individuals were valued was very important to me. This works for me, and I’ve been on this path for 20+ years. Early on, I was fine with interfaith dating. Not anymore. Please don’t take this personally, but in no way could I ever date a Christian again. I’ve met a very few Christians who are genuinely fine people. Warm, open and non-judgmental. I know a number of people in interfaith marriages, some happy, some not. I’m not against them, that’s their choice, but it’s not for me. My world view is so different than that of a Christian, I find I need someone who really understands how I think, and they have a hard time with that. My boyfriend of 8 years is a Taoist, and while our beliefs aren’t identical, they’re very compatible. It works. I can’t imagine being married to someone who believes we are born damned.
His family has a hard time with it. They are what I call “general Christians”. They hold to the core beliefs, but do their practice in their daily life rather than in a church. They kind of ignore that their son is not Christian anymore and hasn’t been for a decade. When it comes up, they get very uncomfortable. We don’t discuss what I believe. Period. They know by how I’ve treated their son that I’m a not a bad person. He explained some of my core beliefs in a very simplistic way when we first started dating, but it’s not something they know enough about to have a grip on. In general they just prefer to ignore that I don’t even remotely believe what they do. So what’s the downside? Several of his family members are very religious, and not in a good way. There are family things that he would like passed to him that he will never have. The family basically believes that if something happens to him, that I’d trash their heirlooms because I don’t share their beliefs. This has been going on for years, valued possessions going to family who is likely to sell them for the money once the grandparents are gone, rather than to my boyfriend who would love and cherish them. All of it is based in fear. His sister finally told us what was going on in the family meetings he never knew about. He’s very upset, and so am I. If he died, anything from his family that was given to “us” while we were together, or only has interest to them, I’d return to them. Heirlooms should be with the people who will love and value them, and I’d be going against his wishes to do anything else. Things from my family would go to my uncle or my cousin. It’s all very simple and logical, but apparently they don’t believe I have enough decency to honor his wishes.
Which brings me to my biggest gripe about Christianity. In my experience, they act as if they have a “lock” on all that’s good. If it’s good, it must be Christian. If someone of another faith does good things, they are in shock. To them, it’s just not possible to be a good person without being Christian. Never mind all the lying, stealing, cheating, abusive priests, politicians and businessmen who are “Christian”. Faith, Charity, Good works, all are looked on with suspicion if you’re not Christian. I don’t do good deeds because it’s “commanded” of me, I do them because I have a kind and generous nature, and it’s how I want to be treated. I don’t want to live in a world that’s mean and has no grace, no kindness. So I do my best not to create it. I’m not perfect, heck, I’m venting here….. but I try to be my best as a whole person, the good and the bad.
In the end I guess I’d prefer that people have “faith” over “religion”, but it’s also my experience that too many humans are nothing more than cleverly disguised sheep who have no desire to think for themselves.
Thank you for letting me vent.
This post made me cry, so I had to reply…
My daughter's father is agnostic and we have fallen back in love and started dating again. My family is so upset with me because he's not a christian. In fact, they were glad we decided to split when I became pregnant.
I'm having a lot of anxiety because my family won't accept him due to the fact that he doesn't believe in God. I get scolded for spending time with him and I'm constantly being told that we are not putting our daughter first. This is not the case.
This post boosted my spirits and made me realize that our relationship isn't "DOOMED." I copied, pasted it and saved on my computer to inspire me when I'm feeling judged!
Thanks!
Kiss: I'll make sure the guy who wrote this letter sees your response here; I know he'll be glad for it. Thanks very much for writing in.
I am currently engaged to the sweetest man I have ever known. We have so much in common, and he is supportive of everything I do. I am currently struggling with how my family will react to him because I was raised in a conservative Christian home and he does not believe in God. I believe in God, I just don't believe in all the dogmatic views I was raised with. We are so happy together, and this posting gives me hope that our marriage can succeed.
I was surfing the web today for theist/atheist relationships and came across this. I just want to thank you so much for writing this, it really spoke to the situation between me and my partners. He is an agnostic that seems to be evolving into an atheist and I'm a "free-thinking" Christian. I read different articles, websites, etc. that say it would never work b/c we aren't "equally yoked" and I think its straight garbage. Just thank you so much for writing this, I will keep this link and read it anytime I need proof that a difference in religious thinking doesn't equal failure.
I am a Christian and want to wish you every blessing in your marriage. It is great you love her so much and seek to live and understand your differences. Why cannot Christian’s express this so well. God is real, he meets you where you are not where someone else thinks you or God should be.
Please keep an open mind, God can make himself know in unexpected places.
Peter
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Gatsome: I was born and raised as an “ignorant Christian” until my late teens when my conscious raised to a level of understanding that had to leave God behind. I would not want my children taught Christianity as fact (which they do if you ever allow them into Sunday School). It closes their mind to more ……..
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I agree 100%!!! I dont understand why christians (or any other religion) think its not harmful to take their children to church. They are basically brain-washing them into believing something that may or may not be true! If we bring our kids up to believe that it is good to kill people then that is what they will believe! A little extreme, but just an example.
Wow, that was a bit mind boggling to say the least. I am Chana, David's aunt (his mother's sister). I love and respect David and Rachel and wish them much health, happiness and understanding. Rachel is the best thing that has come into David's life. But, we can not ignore the hurt and pain of his parents when he "removed" himself from the Jewish faith. I too am a modern orthodox religious jew as his parents and his grandparents. I have six children who have each chosen to deal with religion in their own way. Each has chosen the parts of Judaism which are agreeable to them. Some are more observant some less, we accept them all with love and want them to be happy, healthy, productive and kind people.
The large majority of people are "born" into their faith, it is not something they chose. Therefore, it would seem easy for us to say if one's faith was a given and not a choice, why do parents get upset when their child rejects their faith. A feeling of failure and rejection is the answer. A child, no matter how old, is always searching for his parents recognition and acceptance. How can a parent accept and recognize what is completely against the core of their belief and upbringing? Is there really a way to overcome this without insult, disappointment and heartache?
On one hand – we can not force one to believe
on the other hand – we can not force one to accept
Don't for a minute believe it is simple.
Sure living as a loving, caring understanding couple is a wonderful and warm bubble but outside the bubble are people who were hurt. Not intentionally, not out of malious but hurt none the less.
When David and Rachel became a reality (married) there were two choices. One to disconnect from them or two to continue to love them as part of our family. Thank G-d (I know David doesn't believe in him) the later was the choice and we love and care for David and Rachel.
We wish them only good times but don't for a minute believe it has been an easy path emotionally for his family.
David,
Please let me thank you for posting one of the most cogent and articulate notes I have read in a long time. It caused me to think in a new way about topics I thought I had settled in my mind.
A lot of times it's not about what we think or what we feel, but what God asks of us. If the pursuit of our own happiness is our greatest goal, then disregard for a lot of Biblical principles would come into play (such as immediate sexual gratification). The Bible says to not be yoked with unbelievers, and often times in the Bible, the word 'yoked' is speaking of marriage specifically. The simple difference of faith presents a coin dilemma. On one side, the viewer can see it as the most ignorant, unloving and unpractical 'rule' imaginable (to leave someone because they don't share your faith?!) on the other side, it can be seen as, you want the person that you love the most on Earth to know and love the other greatest love of your life, God. And s/he who is not with God, is in a way, against God (despite respecting Christianity and all). It's just very difficult to, let's say, love the man who does not love your own son. It's not even on that level, because God is above human. I just feel that it's a great pull and struggle at all times either towards one end of choosing God or choosing the man that you love. Choosing the man that you love who does not love God is not choosing God. For God himself already told you that does not please Him. In the end, following God simply brings the greatest joy to your own self and the greatest good to others, including the non-Christian man that you love. And isn't that what you want, at the end of the day?
Why is it everytime the topic of "sin" comes up, sexual gratification is sure to follow, as if it is the most evil of all sins listed in the Bible? It's why I love the Tanakh (or what Christians call "The Old Testament") which is supposedly the foundation of the Christian faith, which–when talking about all of the sins and/or abominations which God hates in Proverbs–neglects to mention sexual sin. What God DOES mention, however, is: picking on the poor or the widow, slander, greed and others.
Also, I love how people quote Paul when he WAS married and supposedly left his wife in order to "follow Jesus." He was either a Pharisee or a Sadduccee and they had to be married to uphold those positions…so…does that make Paul and adulterer?
Nothing against you, Kathy, but this sort of thinking is why more people are opting to leave the church and count themselves as "other" in regards to religion.
Personally, I love this article and it is proof that TRUE love, REGARDLESS of differences in religious beliefs, CAN overcome "much."
Time doesn't permit me to respond more, but I hope everyone is having a wonderful day!
hey man keep up the good work!!! If you could visit my personal page I would really appriciate it I'm sort of scrambling for subscribers right now!!!
John!!!
Johnification.wordpress.com
David,
First let me say thank you for a challenging, interesting well-written post. I almost didn't read it because of your statement about being an expert from being married twice. I am in that same boat and understand what you mean, but I have an acquantance who is 5 times divorced, and I dare say that he is far from a marriage expert….. and certainly not 5X the expert of my friend Tom who married right out of high school and has now been married 25 years.
I absolutely loved this line in your post "They grow toward each other by learning about and respecting their differences, and then stay together by willingly meeting each other’s needs, whether they fully understand them or not." There is much to be said for that kind of love. Thanks for sharing your experience
(David Barach, I love you. Did you get so smart in Jew school or Atheist school?)
I don't consider myself Christian and I don't consider myself an Atheist, mostly because I find labels confining. I don't believe in God, but I'm not against the belief in God, either. I like possibilities (and firm handshakes, and pickup trucks.) I believe in being kind and good to one another.
I know both David and Rachel, and their marriage is amazing and inspiring. It is inspiring because of love and faith they found in each other and the unconditional care, devotion, and encouragement they give each other everyday, while still being true to themselves. They have so much faith in each other, that their beliefs can be different. That is very powerful.
If they were to have a child, it would held, and nurtured and loved. It would be encouraged, educated. It's beliefs would be shaped by the patience and love (and laughter) that David and Rachel give not only to each other but to everyone else, too. If they were to have a child, it would believe in his/herself. It would not feel threatened by different beliefs, but inspired and challenged. It would seek goodness and love from everyone. What could be more Christ-like?
Um, being Christ-like.
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