Comments on: Sunday School: What a Drag. Literally!

By: Redlefty

Redlefty — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:47:20 +0000

I was addicted to The Show for a while. I was an awesome left fielder for the Astros.

We have the Sony Playstation 3 and the Nintendo Wii at our house. I like the PS3 because it also plays Blu-Ray discs, which, John, you need to see on that nice plasma TV. Way above and beyond DVD in quality.

Wii is more for the kids but many of the games give you exercise, if you don't want to feel like a slouch.

Both systems come with instructions, and usually come in a bundle with a game or two as well.

By: Brian Shields

Brian Shields — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:54:35 +0000

I like sports related video games. My eclair habit has made it so that I can't actually DO sports but I can be a virtual star.

My current obsession is MLB08:The Show.

By: John Shore

John Shore — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:39:23 +0000

yeah, you know: if that works for you, coolio. It wouldn't for me (obviously) because "the data" would leave so much unaccounted for or anywhere near explained. You can't quantify, or data-ize, love, or nobility, or sacrifice, or ideals, or altrusism … or ANYTHING emotional. And the religious experience–as is LIFE, I would argue—is primarily an emotional experience. So the "models" derived from this data of yours would, to me, automatically be so lacking in scope that I would—as, of course, I did—move on to a system wherein ALL of the human experience is contextually reasonable.

But that's just me, of course. I mean, not JUST me, obviously. But me.

Bongs, eclairs, and video games. Good way to kill an afternoon, anyway. Or … about four years, I would guess.

I've never played a video game. Ever. It's so stupid. I want to. What should I buy? I have a new, 52" plasma TV. What system? What games? I assume the gaming consol will come with some kind of SET-UP instructions??

By: Brian Shields

Brian Shields — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:19:43 +0000

I hear you John but I can tell you absolutely beyond any shadow of a doubt that I would be "happiest, most content, most peaceful" in a world where chocolate eclairs provide all of the nutrition I could want and playing video games while doing bonghits will provide me with all of the sustenance and socialization I would ever need.

Why don't I choose choose to believe that? I could definitely have faith in a chocolate eclair bonghit videogame world.

I think what I'm proposing is more realistic than choosing to believe in Jesus or Buddha or Chocolate eclair honghits as enticing as all three might seem to me. Instead I choose to try to create models that explain the data I am confronted with but choose not to believe in any one of the models.

So (my point being:sorry) to me it's about Thinking and trying to disprove instead of about faith or belief or even knowing… because I agree with you knowing seems impossible

By: John Shore

John Shore — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:00:47 +0000

But the question (Brian) isn't whether or not any of us can ever get any objectively verifiable proof of God. The question, for everyone, is are we happier CHOOSING to process our natural understanding and experience of God within the context of an established, traditional religion, or are we happier choosing either to believe that there is no God, or that we simply can't know. One of those three is all any of us have. In the end, all that really matters is which one makes any given person the happiest, most content, most peaceful—which of the those three, in other words, most fully accords with his nature. Being by nature a religious person, I naturally tend to think people are best off when they process their religious/spiritual natures through a religion they don't have to make up as they go along—and, being a Christian, I of course think Christianity is the best religion. I have all KINDS of issues with the way it's so often practiced and articulated in the world—but so what? I may not like Sempra Energy, or whatever, but that doesn't mean I don't love electricity. I'm more comfortable than not believing in a God; believing a God exists makes more SENSE to me. And I think the Christian concept and understanding of God is the best one. Simple. But (my point being: sorry) it's not about KNOWING. It's about choosing to believe. That's what … faith is.

By: Brian Shields

Brian Shields — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:47:50 +0000

Funny, this is much the way I came to Model Agnosticism. A similar moment to this led me to realize, "No one knows." What happens after death? No one knows. How was the world created? No one knows. etc. The best we can do is to take the available evidence and create a model that explains that evidence… but always remain agnostic about the models because new data can and likely will come along that will negate that model and require an updated one.

I came to that agnosticism many years after attending Christian Science Sunday School which always ends with "The Scientific Statement of Being" which I can still recite by heart even if the words seem more and more meaningless to me.

By: rebekah

rebekah — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:56:26 +0000

Sometimes we find it difficult to just admit that we dont know all the answers, we bluff our way through or use our seniority to snub the questioner! I think it hurts & discourages a child to be brushed aside or in your case dragged down the aisle:). Thankfully it didnt have a lasting effect you still ask questions!
whatever happened to the “a teacher learns most from her students” saying? most christian communities in India do not encourage questioning especially against their practices and beliefs. but if we do not question, how will we find answers that will make us stronger in what we believe. what you believe in should be able to withstand the questions that arise against/about it.

By: odgie

odgie — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:20:37 +0000

John,

The saddest part of your story (IMHO) is that it is played out again and again at Christian colleges all over the country. No, they don’t drag you kicking and screaming from class (and sorry, but since i’ve never seen photos of you as a kid, all I can think of is a little kid with the photo of you from the blog superimposed on his body – an image which makes me giggle) but asking tough questions is still looked down on.

By: Paul H.

Paul H. — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:28:13 +0000

Too bad you weren’t studying Bhagavad-gita. It actually makes sense.

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:47:53 +0000

I haven’t been reading that long, but there seems to be a “church horror story” pattern developing with several of your posts — the church ladies who wanted you to dump your attending but as-yet-unbelieving wife, the same church who wanted you to sign a policy statement, and now what would be a nightmare for any child. All of these stories stir your readers’ sympathies and outrage.

Is that by design — to stir up discussion uncovering man’s never-ending failures in organized religion, or have you just been especially “blessed”?