Below is John 1: 1-4. (If you’re new to learning the Bible, what John 1:1-4 means is that in the New Testament we’re looking at The Book of John [sometimes also called "The Gospel According to John," or, most often, just "John"], chapter one, verses 1-4.)
John 1: 1-4
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
I think these first four sentences of The Book of John are capturing and expressing the reality of the Trinity. They’re saying that God comes in three modes: Absolute and unchanging (“God”); exuberantly creative (“Word”); and personally and specifically inside of each and every man (“the light of men”).
And there’s the ineffable mystery of the three-in-one God. There, in four (heartbreakingly elegant) sentences, is the basis for the entirety of Christianity.
Jesus, of course, is the Word, the active aspect of God; he is God’s unending potential manifested in real space and time. Jesus is the perfect means by which God’s absolute, undifferentiated power is physically, corporeally expressed.
“Word” perfectly captures that extraordinary dynamic. A thing doesn’t really have an identity, hasn’t ever been definitively differentiated from everything else in the world, until it has been named—until someone has attached a unique word to it that, from then on out, refers exclusively to that thing, and only that thing. Naming something marks the finality of the process by which something gains its own distinct, enduring presence; it is how a thing transforms from unknown to known.
Put in the broadest possible terms, it’s how a thing moves from the world of undivided and absolute God, to the differentiated, relative, human world in which God became Jesus.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
And there it is: by the power of the active, creative force of God—which ultimately personified itself into the Jesus we worship today—all things that ever were or will be were created. Jesus is the Word through which God created us, and our world.
In him was life was life, and that life was the light of men.
That’s just an extremely perfect way of saying that, ultimately, what Jesus brought is the means by which his essence (“the light”) is meant to be fully imparted and awakened in the hearts and minds of all who believe that he was, in fact, exactly who he said he was.
And that is the Holy Spirit.
And there we have the Holy Trinity, laid down before us like a path any of us are free to walk upon.
Other posts of mine about the opening verses of John:
John 1:5: The Archer’s Grief
John 1:6-15: Read It and Weep
John 1:16: It’s All Groovy Like a Movie
John 1:17: Where “Truth” Depends on Your Translation
John 1:18: Bring on the Stupid
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
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Here’s a related question for anyone who could help me. (I’m not being coy or cute, here, I’d like to hear all of your considered thoughts.)
What is it of Jesus’ message, life, mission, and example that is undermined if Jesus in fact was something less than actually God? Is there anything that is irrevocably made meaningless by Jesus not being God, that is, co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit in the Holy Trinity?
Not in my theology, Marcelo. I much prefer the idea that Jesus shows us our full, attainable potential, in God’s love, than he was somehow “extra” special Apollo-like being. If he’s perfect by birth, how does he even have temptation, much less struggle to deny it?
But I’m sure there are other convincing arguments to be made, in favor of such a necessity.
For those of you who are saying the trinity is not true…….maybe your light isn’t as bright as it needs to be.
Hmmm….Possibly. Or maybe yours is too bright to see anything else in the room with you? Just a thought.
Not convinced? Not surprising. Perhaps suggesting we’re dim-bulbs might be less a persuasive argument than trying to refute non-Trinitarian arguments.
There are two things I noticed about your replies to my last post:
1. You had absolutely nothing to say about how the trinity doctrine blatently contradicts the teachings of Jesus that are found in the Bible.
2. You failed to show how John 1:1-4 explains the trinity. “Trinity” means “a unity of three.” Where does it say at John 1:1-4 that God consists of three co-equal, co-eternal, co-almighty persons? Answer: It doesn’t. It merely says at John 1:1 (in some, but not all Bibles) that “the Word was God.” Nowhere in that verse does it say, “the Word AND the Father AND the holy spirit were God.” So, if God is a trinity and that “the Word was God,” where, then, is “the unity of THREE” persons that make up a single deity? Answer: Nowhere. Could you possibly be thinking of Jesus as being the Father, Son, and holy spirit, which would be modalism, another unscriptural concept of God?
If John 1:1-4 DID explain the trinity, why would it be necessary for you to bring up 1 John 5:7 when you have not shown how John 1:1-4 explains the existence of a deity that consists of three co-equal, co-eternal, co-almighty persons? Could it be that you know that you really didn’t have a case with John 1:1-4 explaining what you initially claimed? I already showed you how the trinity doctrine directly contradicts the Bible, yet, you had nothing to say about that. Can you see now how your argument in favor of the trinity being Biblical is incorrect?
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I’m sure you are aware that your renderring of 1 John 5:7 does not exist in most modern Bibles. It is a spurious addition to what the verse actually says. And even if your renderring of the verse were correct, where does it say that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are three co-equal, co-eternal, co-almighty persons that make up a single deity? Answer: It doesn’t. It merely says that the three are “one.” In Scripture, “one” often means “agreement.” At Gen. 2:24, it says that a man and his wife are “one flesh.” That doesn’t mean that the two make up the same human being. It means they are in agreement. At 1 Cor. 3:6, 8, Paul says: “I planted, Apollos watered . . . He that plants and he that waters are one.” Did Paul mean that he and Apollos were one in the same person? No. He meant they were unified in purpose. That is exactly what Jesus had in mind when he said in prayer to his Father, “I and the Father are one” and that he wished that his disciples would be one “just as we are one.”(John 10:30; 17:22) Nowhere in Scripture did Jesus say or even imply that he and his Father made up two persons of a three-person God. So, 1 John 5:7 cannot help you to prove that God is a trinity.
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Huh? If God were a trinity, wouldn’t that make the holy spirit just one of three persons of God? Are you telling me that the holy spirit–a “person” of one–is equal to God–a deity of three persons? Doesn’t Isa. 46:5 say by way of a rhetorical question that no one is equal to God?
Matt. 12:31, 32 says: “Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” If the holy spirit were one of three co-equal persons of God, this text would flatly contradict the Trinity doctrine, because it would mean that in some way the holy spirit was greater than the Son, since it carried a stiffer penalty for blasphemy. However, as Jesus said, a person could blaspheme him and still be forgiven. But blasphemy against the holy spirit was unforgivable. What Jesus said shows that the Father, to whom the “spirit” belonged, is greater than Jesus, the Son of man. So, Matt. 12:32 can’t help you either to prove that God is “a unity of three” persons.
I suggest that you closely examine the trinity doctrine for yourself so that you can see it for the lie that it is. God is not a trinity. Jesus’ Father–a single person–is the “only true God.” (John 17:3)
Maybe your light isn’t as bright as it should be.
This is hardly a convincing reply to the persuasive argument Carl is putting forth; in fact, it’s bordering on being an ad hominem attack.
I agree, Ray. I still haven’t read any substantive refutation of Carl’s arguments. For what it’s worth (coming from me, not much, lol), I agree with much of what Carl has written, although I do believe that Carl’s strident tone was uneccessary and perhaps off-putting to those who are convinced Trinitarians. Me, I’m more of a non-Trinitarian Christian, which puts me as very un-Christian in the eyes of most orthodoxy, so I am more receptive to Carl’s arguments.
However, please, if any convinced Trinitarians would like to debate Carl’s points, I’m all ears (or what passes for them in cyberspace).
Thanks.
you doorknob, the blasphemy of the HS is dealing with those who turn the spirit away as He draws them to Christ. That blasphemy is really the refusal to accept Christ as Saviour which will lead a person to an eterinity in hell
Do the first four verses really explain the trinity? Not by a long shot. The trinity doctrine, which is said to be Bible based, says, in part:
1. “We worship one God in trinity and trinity in unity.” Do any of the first four verses of John’s gospel say that three persons should be worshipped as a single unit or “God”? No.
Did Jesus teach that God should be worshipped as a trinity of persons? No. At John 4:23, he said: “But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.” So, only the Father should be worshipped, not a tri-person deity. There is no scripture in the Bible that says that the Son and the holy spirit should be worshipped along with the Father as a single God.
2. The trinity doctrine says: “The Father is God, the Son is God, and the holy spirit is God.” Do any of the first four verses of John’s Gospel say that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the holy spirit is God? No.
Did Jesus teach that the Father, Son, and the holy spirit are all God? No. At John 17:3, he prayed to his Father, calling him the “only true God.” Paul added: “But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything.” (1 Cor. 8:6) So, only the Father is God, not a trinity of persons.
3. The trinity doctrine says: “In this Trinity, none is greater or less than Another. The whole Three Persons are Co-equal.” Do any of the first four verses of John’s Gospel say or imply that “in this Trinity, none is greater or less than another”? No.
Did Jesus ever say that among himself, the Father, and the holy spirit that “none is greater”? No. At John 14:28, he said: “The Father is greater than I am.” Since the Father is greater than his Son, then the two can’t be co-equal.
4. The trinity doctrine says: “He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.” Do any of the first four verses of John’s Gospel say or even imply that salvation rests on believing that God is triune? No.
Did Jesus ever say that believing in the trinity is required for salvation? No.
5. The trinity doctrine says: “It is necessary to everlasting Salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Do any of the first four verses of John’s Gospel say or even imply that salvation is based on believing that in the incarnation of Jesus Christ? No.
Did Jesus ever say that salvation is based on believing in his incarnation? No.
It is more than evident that your readers believe what you say about the trinity because they don’t have all of the facts. God is not a trinity; he is a single person–the Father. (John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6)
Those who believe in the trinity are in danger of having themselves classified with the religiious leaders of Jesus’ day. Of them, Jesus said: “Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.” (Matt. 15:9)
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Jesus said blaspheming Himself was forgivable, but blaspheming the Spirit was not forgivable in this age, or in the age to come (Matt. 12:32)
If the Holy Spirit was not equal with God, why would Jesus give such a warning. Sorry Carl. Those ideas are from the Word of God, not the words of man.
You’re confused, Tim. According to the trinity doctrine, the holy spirit is not equal to God. Instead, it is one of three co-equal persons that makes UP God along with the Father and Son.” The trinity is a Catholic concept of God that has been accepted by many non-catholic religions.
FYI, no one is equal to God. As God himself said by way of a rhetorical question: “To whom will you people liken me or make me equal or compare me that we may resemble each other?” (Isa. 46:5) Nowhere in Scripture does it say that the holy spirit is co-equal with God, triune or otherwise. And consider this: If the holy spirit were co-equal to the Son, then blaspheming the holy spirit woud be just as serious as blaspheming the Son. But that is not the case, is it? No matter how you look at it, the Bible does not support the trinity.
Maybe your light isn’t as bright as it should be?
That’s not the “Trinity doctrine”. You’re quoting the Athanasian Creed, which was not backed by any of ecumenical councils and is a pseudo-epigraphic composition originally peculiar to the Latin rite. In regards to many people’s understanding of the Trinity (especially those such as Mr. Shore who aren’t likely to believe something just because somebody said that it’s the right interpretation), I believe you’re arguing against a straw man.
I've heard a dozen different people speak on those four verses and each one is a little different and yet carries the full glory of God. Thanks for adding to that list!
Hi,
This post is awesome!!! What else needs to be said? I am a student and doing apologetics and one of our topics this week was the trinity. Your post was a great place for me to come so that I can better present my point of view in my speeches that I will have to present. Thank you for the time and effort that you have put into this post so as to assist others in their faith. The Trinity has always been a puzzle to me (and still is), but who said we really have to understand everything there is to know about God? Anyway this article helped me to better understand this concept called "the Trinity".
Thank you again, and God bless everyone who visits this site.
I understand the Trinity this way – think of water. Water is water but can be represented and changed into three different forms. Water can be in a liquid state as we most often encounter it. If heated very high, water can become a gaseous or vapor state. If made really cold, water becomes a frozen solid state- yet these are all a form of water. I see God the same way. God in heaven, creator and ruler of everything. God in Jesus as a human who walked among us to relate to us in this perfect way. And God in the Spirit to dwell within our heart and thoughts and help guide us along a more perfect path. So, I see God in these different states yet all representing the same thing – our one true God in three forms.
I have heard of many analogies for the trinity, some include: an apple, water, 3-in-1 shampoo, 1x1x1=1, a clover leaf, a triangle, and the list goes on. They help, but they only go so far. Thank you though.
I think this is a good example as well, all 3 states of water at the same time:
The Triple Point
At 0 °C and 6 mbar pressure water can exist in a closed container as a solid, liquid and gas at the same time. This is called the triple point pressure of water. In other words at this low pressure, which is the average pressure on the surface of Mars, water can boil and freeze at the same time. Mountaineers know that the boiling point of water decreases with altitude, that is the boiling temperature decreases as the atmospheric pressure decreases. Decrease the atmospheric pressure enough and the water will boil at 0°C. Below the triple point pressure, water can only exist as a solid and a gas, not as a liquid for any length of time.
http://www.exo.net/~pauld/workshops/weather/solidliquidgas.html
Hard to imagine water like this. Sort of like the trinity.
Wow! An ongoing discussion of the Trinity by people who take it seriously! I'm impressed. Naturally, I'm going to express my opinions now. I once read that this doctrine was developed by the early Christians because they found a need to explain how they could worship the God of Israel and pray to Jesus. That sounds probable to me, at least it's possible. Praying to the Risen One must have been pretty natural for a pagan convert. My understanding is that Christians have come to worship three separate and distinct Divine Figures all of which reveal (to them) the same One God. Since I have no scholarly gift, I'm not sure of which would be the correct reason for burning me at the stake for this belief. As far as the Arian heresy, which Jehovah;s Witnesses have revived, which believes that Jesus was The God's highest angel, I regard the difference as being none of my business. More Heat than Light, I think.
I too love the "hymn to the Logos" as recorded in the 1'st chapter of the 4'th Gospel. I believe this is a little older than the trinity teaching and is probably an important source. I like John's (S.) consistent explanation, but share Dr. Faust's problem with the translation of Logos. I go with "Meaning" with a capital M and Identify Rabbi Jesus Josephson of Nazareth with the Meaning of creation in my personal understanding of the divine figure The Lord Jesus Christ.
Oops this is where you can find the original Greek and Hebrew scriptures translated word for word
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Gr…
Do you understand greek grammar? Even secular people, who are unbiased in their interpretations, will say that it is grammatically impossible for it to read, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
This topic bothers me.
If you read the Original Greek scriptures before it was misinterpreted and erroneously recopied several times by various bibles it states that the word was a God..not "the word was God". The left out a.
Furthermore, if you read the rest of John Jesus says he does not accpet praise from men and the there is only one God (John 5: 41-44)
Jesus states that he cannot do anything by himself for the father loes the Son and shows him all he does. Jesus states that he does not seek to please himself but he seeks to please God. (John 5:30)
How can God sit at the right hand of himself. Why would he pray to himself in the Garden? How can he show hiimself how to do things he already knows?
True Jesus was with God in the beginning and everything was created through him. (Let Us make man in OUR own image) Jesus was the first born of God (onlybegotten) before he was born by the Virgin Mary. And through Jesus everything was made. God worked through Jesus but God is Supreme.
Check out the ORIGINAL Hebrew and Greek Scriptures here before it was altered. Also Note that God's name Jehova/ Yaweh was replaced in the bible later on among other changes such as these stated above (The Devil is a liar and wants to confuse us) There is Only ONE God and it is repeated frequently throughout scripture.
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I stumbled upon this. Very interesting. I will share with my husband tonight. As far as Katie goes, Moeketsi you are 100% correct. She is a JW using the New World Translation. I know because I used to be a JW and have read that scripture and debated it many times. I am no longer a JW. I am a born again Christian obviously and am leaning towards the trinity instead of the "one-ness" concept I was taught when becoming a Christian. Unfortunatly all they have is an old translation called the sahidic coptic used a little after Jesus had died to proove their little g theory and putting the letter A in front of GOD. I wonder how many languages there were at the same time this translation was created and how many trasnslated it different from theirs. So why then out of probably a million translations is this the one you choose?
The word 'Elohim' appears over 6000 times in the bible and it is plural. It is a standardised word that can be broken down in any suitable form that will corrielate the person or thing concerned. Genesis 1 says in the beginning Elohim created… EL IS SINGULAR, FOR THE ALMIGHTY GOD ALONE, BUT ELOHIM IS AN INCLUSION OF THE WORD AND THE HOLYSPIRIT, WHOM ALL THREE CREATED EVERYTHING AS WE KNOW IT. THEREFORE Jesus is God, Yahweh(ALMIGHTY GOD) IS God, Holyspirit is God. In one word Elohim
katie sounds like she is using the New World Translation, the Jehovah’s Witness bible, which DOES mistranslate that sentence. unfortunately, this translation was intentional in order to fit the doctrines of C.T. Russell and is very misleading to many people.
@katie: No, it doesn't say a (g)od. It is using the same word, Theos, for God throughout the passage. I'm not sure what Bible you're looking at or even what original language you're looking at. And 1 John 5:19 does not call Satan a little god. I just looked at the Greek and it is the same word throughout for (G)od. You either have to translate it as a (g)od throughout or as (G)od throughout, not one or the other. The latter is the more correct.
i dont think i agree with this at all. im sorry. ive looked up about the trinity loads, john 1 verse 1, God is referred to as a almighty GOD with a capital G, however in the original scriptures which i have seen for proof, say in the beginning the word was, and the word was with (G)od, and the word was a god, when its referring to jesus as as the word it describes him as a god with a small (g), many gods with a small (g) are mentioned in the bible including false gods, in 1john 5v19 it refers satan as a god with a small g. jesus is a god but he is not the almighty GOD. check the original scriptures for proof please, you can find out for yourself. while on earth jesus wanted all the glory to be given his father not too him because he is not deserving of it because he is not the almighty god. also the reason jesus came to earth was to even out what adam (a perfect man) had messed up. However, if the trinity was real then figurativly speaking god would of sent himself down to the earth as a ransom sacrifice but this would of been a very unfair and unbalanced ransom, it had to be a perfect man which is why he sent jesus. also, when jesus went to pray to God before his death, who would he praying too……. himself!!! i dont think so. the trinity is just a misinterpretation of one little verse, and by this one little mistake it makes the bible sound like it contridicts itself.
WOW!.
I came by this last night (12/30/09) by accident and How cool! i was praying for a verse on this very topic. I believe that the word of God is easy to understand, and that God desires us to know his wisdom. And here you have used 4 verses to explain a topic that I have been trying to explain to a friend for over a year LOL.
God bless, I shall surly bookmark your site and read over some of your other postings.
Good explanation
I said what translation I'm using, and don't know what "contradiction" you're talking about. Did I miss something?
I don't see the contradiction. Can you expand on what you see as the contradiction? What is your translation? Thanks in advance.
In the beginning was the Word, Jesus
and the Word was with God, 2 persons present
and the Word was God. 1 person gone
He was with God in the beginning. 2 persons present again
a bit like fly away peter fly away paul, come back peter, come back paul
contradiction in a verse about the trinity.
How lost in translation are you?
You picked out one of my favorite verses. John 1:1-4 is, to me, an even more foundational verse than John 3:16. Thank you for this study.
Chris: I would find it hard to believe that John is "espousing modalism" as defined at http://www.theopedia.com/Modalism. I would tend to believe he used the word modes as a way to separate the three ways we experience God. As I understand it, Modalism says "God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time"(taken form the theopedia site) but I read Johns post as saying that the Trinity exists in three persons at the same time which is classic trinitarism (as I understand it).
If any of what I said is incorrect, please let me know, and as a side note I do not pretend to know the writer of this post personally or have any extra knowledge of what he is thinking, I am purely commenting on his words as they appear on this post, man that sounded like a legal disclaimer from a lawyer(my apologies)
Chris: Oh, you know, I actually began this study about a year ago; this here is actually a rewrite and repost of that earlier post. I just went and pulled it forward so I could avoid having to send everybody else back to look at that old one.
Anything happening with Suddenly Zombie? That still cracks me up.
"It’s saying that God comes in three modes: Absolute and unchanging (”God”), exuberantly creative (”Word”), and personally and specifically inside of each and every man (”the light of men”)."
Are you espousing modalism here?
This is a blatant rip off of my Bible Study. Some Christian you are…it says Thou Shalt Not Steal!
Just teasing. Have fun. It's an interesting book.
I have never heard the Trinity taught the way you expressed it from those 4 sentences in John 1. Very insightful. Wonderful. Will be looking forward to more.
My mother who passed away in 2009, had one of the wisest, most spiritual souls I’ve ever known. When going through her papers as I cleaned out her house, I found this beautiful document:
1. God the Father is God the Author – the originator of all that exists. It was in His mind first that all took shape. The Idea.
2. God the Son, our Savior Jesus Christ, is God the Artisan – the artist, the Creator of all that exists. He brought into being all that had been originally formulated in His Father’s mind. The Maker, the Spoken Word.
3. God the Holy Spirit is God the Agent – who presents these facts to both my mind and my spiritual understanding.
LOL I was expecting YOU to sum up the trinity in 4 sentences.
I’m a bit slow. *sheepish grin* And yes, a good beginning. I love the bit about the naming of a thing being that which gives it its identity. (except for the part where it gave me flashbacks from philosophy class. *shudder*) Your post also reminded me of a poem I wrote a while back, so I went and looked it up to share with you. http://faiththroughthestorm.homestead.com/lovesdiscontentedindex.html *shy look*
David wrote in the Pslams “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, a light unto my path.” Jesus is the light that shines into our world to light the way to God. He is the “way, truth and the life” and says that “no man comes to the Father but by me.”
BTW John Shore, I can’t believe I’ve never added you to my blogroll. I’ve linked to your site before. I’m going to do that right now.
For those who have a hard time understanding the Doctrine of the Trinity, consider the fact that we ourselves are triune beings if you will.
We are a soul that lives in a body of flesh and we have a spirit. Our soul can be likened to God, our body of flesh – Jesus and our spirit – the Holy Spirit.
Not saying we are Gods but rather that if we are triune in that nature, why cannot God be triune as well – three separate and distinct entities that constitute one being?
I like the way you described us, but how do we give proof to body, soul, and spirit? I have been taught from a child in the trinity, but now being married to a husband who does not believe in the diety of Christ and other religious sects that keep me stumped with their questions, plus teaching a Sunday School class. I want to be able to nail this truth in the minds of children, I also want to be able to be reasonable and ready to give the "why" I believe in my heart that God is the 3 in 1. Thank you for sharing. I am up in the middle of the night and can not sleep thinking.
Just say that God, in order to be complete (and completely interactive) must be in three places, at at once: Out in the universe (God the Father), in the world (Jesus), and in the heart (Holy Spirit). No child can’t understand that.
well, just totally brilliant!
Beautiful. I either missed this the other times I read the comments or it didn’t click.
Nifty.
um…wow.
That was very cool.
And "the light" is one of those gifts that we are given that we cannot see its full potential until we pass it on!
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