You can just see how clearly unaware she is that this picture is being taken.
As both a Christian and a normal, everyday person, I find repelling (and maybe worse: boring) the idea of Carrie Prejean as anything resembling a moral authority. I don’t mind that she’s made her career presenting herself to the world as masturbatory fodder. Except for maybe Hugh Hefner’s family, I don’t see anything “family values” about that, but women getting paid to sexually objectify themselves is as old as craven desire itself. What makes absurd Ms. Prejean being positioned as morally admirable is that she’s such an absurdly blatant liar. Saying she didn’t know those soft-porn photos of her were being taken is like an armed bank robber saying he didn’t know anyone would put money in his sack. She’s lying. How she imagines anyone won’t think she’s lying is so far beyond me that I can only assume thinking isn’t one of Ms. Prejean’s strong suits.
It is certainly Ms. Prejean’s right to pose for the cheesecake photos she did. But if we Christians ever want non-Christians to take us any more seriously than they do, we have got to stop proclaiming as upright moral heroes people who by their actions conclusively prove that they have no more right claiming a moral high ground than Ryan Seacrest would have claiming he’s a brain surgeon. It’s good that Ms. Prejean stood up for her belief that gays shouldn’t be allowed to get married. But that belief is part of a moral code, the much larger part of which she egregiously violated by out-and-out lying in public about what, why, and how she did what she did.
Prejean’s bald-faced lying should have obliterated the possibility of Christians holding her up as a hero—much less as, of all things, a moral authority. We need to stop embarrassing ourselves this way.
(By way of an update to this post, I today [11/12/o9] The Reason Carrie Prejean Wanted Her Ex to Lie About Her Porno Tape.)
**********************************************************************************************************
Email: johnshore@sbcglobal.net
Follow: http://twitter.com/johnshore
Befriend: http://www.facebook.com/john.shore1
Be Fan: http://www.facebook.com/pages/John-Shore/89494795412?ref=s
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
{ 103 comments… read them below or add one }
← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
John, Keep going – this particular topic is utterly thrashed to death and points made both sides but don’t don’t stop posting new topics. Shoot those holy cows and religious spirits and let’s see things for what they are. Take care & God Bless you, Mitch
Actually Helly
I listened to her on Focus on the Family, and although I think she has some growing up to do, she did say that she regretted posing for those pictures, that she would not do it again. Now whether she is sincere or just sorry because she got caught is not up to us so we still should not throw stones with or without having full knowledge. Can any of us honestly say that we would have always fessed up immediately and repented when we sinned if we had not been caught with our hand in the cookie jar? Yes, the Holy Spirit convicts us and we hear him but we often ignore him when we are doing something we enjoy. We are experts at rationalizing and justifying our sins when it is us and yet stand ready to stone someone else for the same offenses some of us are guilty of. Sometimes it takes a major wake-up call/crisis to get us to the point of acknowledging the sin for what it is and repenting. I am not justifying her or anyone’s sin.. just saying that but for the grace of God and maybe some spiritual maturity many of us would have done the same thing so we should not hold ourselves up as somehow being better than her, Many of us probably have done some of the same things but no one will know because we are not in the limelight like she is.
Mitch . . Thank you for the exhortation to 'get out of the barn' . . . the cow has been overmilked!
John . .we are waiting with baited breath for the rest of the story about your life!
Don't answer the critics anymore . . . they only want to hang around for good argument.
1. We Christians deal with this all the time with public people — politicians or celebrities of all kinds. We may support them in the beginning, based on what little we know, but we find out they are disingenuous — and their original statement of faith is not backed up by actions.
2. I'm not sure that ALL the people who initially supported her STATEMENT are now vocally supporting HER, once her lies have come to light. Some are, but many aren't guilty of those charges.
It's got virtually nothing to do with "free speech." The American right to free speech means the GOVERNMENT can't stop anyone from saying anything. Anyone who characterizes Cp's little drama as a matter of "free speech" is being utterly clueless.
Again (and again, and again, and again): I had no problem whatsoever with CP's answer to the gay marriage question. None. I don't care about that. It's not interesting. What I DO care about is that she lied about the second wave of her photos that came to light: the ones with her nipples showing. She stated, over and over again, that she didn't KNOW those pictures were as revealing as they were. That's a lie. She knew those pictures were being taken, just as they were.
Now, again, just to be perfectly clear (like that ever helps–but what the heck), the ONLY reason I care about CP's lying is not because I care one way or another if a very young woman lies about her past. That's boring; I couldn't care less. What I resent is that, in SPITE of CP's ongoing lies, Christians everywhere rushed to embrace CP and put her forward as someone in whom other Christians should take great pride. I resent people who share my belief system holding up to the rest of the world someone who is obviously and daily lying (and getting paid to do so). That's an affront and an embarrassment to me personally, and should be to all Christians.
JJ
Wow, that is the most concise unbiased nonjudgemental account of the situation I have read (including my own).
Miss California was asked a question in a pageant.
She answered it.
Some people liked the answer, and some didn't.
Those who didn't like the answer looked for ways to discredit her, which would discredit her statement.
Those who liked the answer supported her right to free speech, and now are stuck with her baggage.
Isn't that pretty much what happened?
@Sad:
First of all, the way you wrote your comment (caused by a misplaced colon, it appears), you quoted John as saying “Honestly, I just can’t see you allowing anyone commenting on your blog to remain unchallenged…. ” etc… which he didn’t say. He refuted that, not the previous one.
Second of all, your comment: On the other hand, you and I and every other Christian sins every day. And we KEEP sinning every day. Does that disqualify all of us?
… misses one key point. Yes, we sin everyday, but the difference is that we regret it. We admit we sinned. We repent. We ask God’s forgiveness. And we try not to do it again. From what I’ve read, that does not appear to be the case, hence the emphasis on her continuation of lying.
John said: “Again: It’s not that she lied. It’s that she’s lyING. Presently. Now. Ongoing. She KEEPS lying. That disqualifies her as someone who is walking with God.”
On one hand, I can’t disagree with that.
On the other hand, you and I and every other Christian sins every day. And we KEEP sinning every day. Does that disqualify all of us?
I’m most sad about this:
Honestly, I just can’t see you allowing anyone commenting on your blog to remain unchallenged if THEY made such a sweeping spiritual judgment on any one individual — pastor, president, plumber, etc. She’s a 10-minute celebrity, she is receiving her punishment in the media for her hypocrisy, and is obviously immature as a believer.
You usually have a more kind, protecting heart when it comes to judging others who are weaker.
Isn't this the beginning of your comment to someone else's post, John?
If it's not, I'm sorry; I must be losing my mind.
Posted by John Shore on May 14, 2009 at 7:10 am
Thuyen: Again: It’s not that she lied. It’s that she’s lyING. Presently. Now. Ongoing. She KEEPS lying. That disqualifies her as someone who is walking with God.
Yeah so, I’m just gonna on a limb and say all this woman cares about is money and the book deal she thinks going to get out this…..she doesn’t really give two hoots about anything. Do you think she spent any portion of her life actually trying to educate herself either academically or morally and is legitimately trying to defend some moral value, or do you think she’s just a twit(albeit attractive one)who is trying to cash in on a situation that presented itself?
I have to go with the latter.
Sad: OK, I'm gonna say this one more time, and I'm done:
I didn't say the quote you quoted, starting with "Honestly." Those aren't my words. I have no idea why you attribute them to me. I didn't say them.
My heart is utterly with CP. I spent a considerable amount of my life as a journalist dealing with models and the modeling industry. I understand—as anyone does—-that being valued for how you LOOK is a particularly virulent version of hell. I wouldn't wish on anyone CJ's apparent mindset about why she's valuable. She thinks the most interesting thing about her is that she's pretty. It's tragic.
My complaint is with Christians who ENCOURAGE that kind of shallowness through encouraging its expressions. We Christians should reject CP speaking for us, because she's NOT prepared to—and that's painfully obvious. She should be embarrassing to our culture as a whole, and particularly embarrassing to we Christians. It's insane that we embrace her as our heroine spokesperson. THAT'S what I'm saying—and that's what I said.
Wow. Crazy much?
Prejean-Miss Hypocrite
Carrie Prejean, the Miss California contestant, was correct about homosexuality! It is mortal filth
and condemned by God’s Word…but Prejean poses semi nude and topless EXPOSING HER
BREASTS and revealing the bottom of her buttocks…then lied about it…and then she parades
her body around in the Miss California Pageant EXPOSING HER PARTIAL BREASTS and
buttocks in a sexual immoral swimsuit before the world! She is 100% a HYPOCRITE and
she does NOT represent Jesus Christ nor a Christian!!
Jesus said it this way, “Anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery
with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better
for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into Hell.” [Mt. 5:28,29]
I am on rochelle's side on this one, its up to carrie and her personal walk with Christ and she goes to a good church and the pastor is really good so hopefully all of this would just finish and carrie can get back to her life.
Its just that as someone said here that she is in the limelight for every reason and if carrie is defending herself and has no problem w.her pictures then its her life and not ours. Its partly the fault of the press that is attacking her Christian beliefs on the basis of her vulgar pictures, hence that is bringing this whole persecution thing that carrie is going through on another level. But, i don't see carrie being persecuted for her faith for that's the opinions of both the press and carrie prejean to feed of each other for being in the news. Carrie is still on the news talking more about freedom of speech rights and the picture stuff, and that's her business and she is pretty much done sharing her testimony which was excellent but the rest of what she had to say is for the reason of reacting to the press.
So lets leave her alone for what carrie has to say does not concern us because she knows what she's doing and saying and that's between carrie and the press.
AMEN . . . I agree with Rochelle!
It's time to get off cj's and john shores' back!
There are more important issues at stake . . .
John . . .don't give up!
You definitely have the Spirit of Christ in you!
You are loved and respected by many as a man who stands solidly for Christian ethics.
Sometimes you are 'wacky', [meaning modern] in your words and expressions, but that is what I and many others love about you! Fresh and thought provoking! Personally, I gag on the traditional, King Kames/Shakespearean expressions. By the way, did you know King James was an alcoholic?
I always say that if God needed to speak through Balaam's donkey, He can use anybody He chooses to speak through today. AND I AM NOT COMPARING YOU TO BALAAMS ASS! lest somebody cracks a snide remark!
You are hugely intelligent, warm and compassionate!
Dane
She was 17 at the time these photos were taken. Presently she is 22. What if she has repented since then? Is there no forgiveness for any of us? If that is the case then all of us would be disqualified from representing Christ and being christians? If so then Christ died in vain. A woman was caught in the very act of adultery and brought to Jesus and He forgave her and told her to sin no more BEFORE she even had a chance to repent. For sure forgiveness does not mean there are no consequences for sin but the fact is that we do not know if she lied or even if she has repented so we need to drop our stones and let Jesus deal with her. Frankly I think we need to not spend so much time and energy trying to remove the speck from her eye when many of us have beams in our own eyes.
Mercred: You never have to worry about “sensing” a sneering sarcastic tone with me. If I’m meaning to be sneering and sarcastic, you’ll know it. (And you won’t, cuz … homey don’t play that.)
I wasn’t “swinging” at CP at all. The closest I came to any personal comment about her at all was saying that she lied about her pictures. She did. That’s not snarky or mean or “swinging” at all. That’s stating the (ridiculously) obvious. I don’t have to have any inside information to know that’s true. Anyone can see it.
I have no idea how you can seriously assert that the minds of non-Christians “debased,” and, as you put it, “on the equivalent of sin-inducing qualudes [sic].” That’s just … absurdly offensive.
“The moment” didn’t change CP; it it HAD—if she was truly with God—then she’d stop lying. You can’t hold the hand of Christ AND lie in the way she is. You can do one or the other. She’s chosen the other. It’s not complicated. She lied, and she’s lying—and she’d getting paid to do so. A school child can see it. And I don’t CARE that she is. I care that so many Christians are applauding her for it.
Man, I’m gettin’ tired of saying this.
To be honest,
I just didn’t interpret an edifying spirit in your post John – that was my pt. I sensed a sneering sarcastic one – not a sincere “let’s build each other up here” one. I see now that wasn’t on your agenda.
I’ve read your posts long enough to know that we come from similar backgrounds – you and I. Sorry if my post came across to you in a way that was argumentative – that was not the intent. The intent was to convey disappointment that you came out “swinging” against her in such a seemingly aggressive fashion. Perhaps, I misunderstood. It was really “tough love”.
FYI, I don’t have an argument with you OR the “truth” of the situation; neither, do you have full access to the whole situation either (unless you. Carrie and D.Trump are all buds?). Regardless, I agree her actions ARE disappointing. They don’t help the ’cause’ of Christianity, and I have to admit I was miffed when this all came to a head.
However it’s not up to me, you or anyone else. It’s up to God and if you believe in His sovereignty than you have to say:” Well, that’s it then!The rest of us squeaky- clean- holier- than- thouers, are just going to have to work harder to clean up the mess of the less spiritually fortunate”. (wink nudge nudge)…
My point is, I churn every time I think of the stupid things I did early on in my walk with God. Heck, I’m making butter now as I type!!
In addition, it’s not absurd to see that non-Christians will never take us “seriously” – THEY DON’T KNOW GOD!!! That means, according to Romans, GOD has given them OVER to a DEBASED mind. Their minds are effectively on the equivalent of sin- inducing qualudes. God is the one who justifies not man -we do the best we can, and even our best is most-often not good enough.He works DESPITE us.
Could Carrie have done better, chosen better, acted better in her modeling career? Yes, yuppers, definitely. However, given the culture she’s raised in, she had a choice on that stage where she COULD have coasted on the question AND SHE DIDN’T. Is she a moral authority? NO!!! But for her, it was a moment that changed her life, and it had a purpose that only God knows what the outcome will be.
I really don’t want to argue and please don’t accuse me of being delusional of the truth of the matter. We can see what she did for ourselves. There’s just no point in slinging mud toward another Christian – don’t we get that enough from the world?
Much love – peace out bro.
Hey john,
From reading this article, its up to an individual to see carrie prejean as a role model for standing up for her beliefs regarding a controversial matter or to not see her as a role model based on her pictures and her plastic surgery. So far people had seen carrie as good role model but there’s also people who have a problem with her doing the swimsuit competition and plastic surgery, and then later on the pictures have certainly been decisive in whether people can look up to her or not. Overall, it depends on each individual and i think the press is making this into a big deal and it shouldn’t really be this controversial since its carrie prejean that is important and not “standing up for her faith”.
Just because she attends a christian college this whole thing was been made out to be a persecution trial, and its really funny that even obama has the same views on definition of marriage and california has voted for Prop 8. Why is this even an issue and i don’t see carrie prejean as being persecuted or mocked for her faith, rather she said in the pageant that she has been raised to see marriage is only between man and woman. She didn’t even mention verses of the Bible or according to God this is marriage and Christian values says this. Even a person from another religion can say marriage is between man and woman according their own values or religion.
I don’t see what the big deal is and why carrie prejean is still in the press especially after all the fuss has diminished particularly surrounding her statements, and yes i do applaud her for her stand but this isn’t different from what the president said and what majority of californian’s voted against same sex marriage said.
Greta: You wouldn’t BELIEVE the vehemence of so many of the “comments” I’ve gotten for this post. I delete and block them, but … yikes. I can’t imagine, at this point, how many times I’ve been accused of being … well, the OPPOSITE of a Christian, basically. Crazy stuff.
John, you have to be pretty thick skinned to take all this criticism!
The way I see it, after reading all the comments, is that you have been misunderstood….some of your readers have ‘stretched the point’ you succinctly made.
I do agree that Jesus calls us to not judge…..because we are all imperfect…..
On the other hand, people are swayed by the media mongrels who happily over-play a ‘christian’s’ downfall. I, myself, feel badly that I atttacked the lady as I did. On the other hand, I am more upset with the press who won’t let it go or lay it down.
God knows Ms. Prejean’s heart…..and He forgives her.
JS: And here we have yet another way to keep non-Christians as far away as possible from Christianity and Christians
Me: Wrong. It is not another way to keep non-Christians as far away as possible from Christianity and Christians.
Ephesians 2
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
It is stating the truth of Scriptures. It may be offensive to folks who do not believe to hear that. But truth is truth. Paul wrote the gospel would itself be an offense to those who are perishing:
1 Corinthians 1
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
It is not in our power to draw people to Christ or Christianity. Our job is to preach the truth in love, even if that truth is offensive, and it is God's power and sovereignty to change hearts.
JS: And here we have yet another way to keep non-Christians as far away as possible from Christianity and Christians: assert that non-Christians are incapable of understanding the nature of God. Insulting AND repellingly arrogant. Perfect.
Me: In actuality, what you claim as insulting and repellingly arrogant is biblical.
1 Corinthians 2
14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he CANNOT understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 12
3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
John 6
43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6
63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
Romans 3
10There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[
Romans 8
6The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
And there we have those … Bible quotes.
And here we have yet another way to keep non-Christians as far away as possible from Christianity and Christians: assert that non-Christians are incapable of understanding the nature of God. Insulting AND repellingly arrogant. Perfect.
O, give me a break.
I had a psychologist friend of mine say once the reason he treated so many couples is because they thought they were better communicators than what they actually were.
You're getting the posts you're getting because your original post has a "tone" of moral superiority to it NOT because you're necessarily wrong. It's the WAY you said it. Some word choices sound inflammatory and you know it. Writers write and choose their words for effect – don't act like you don't know the power of the written word.
And no, I didn't fail "reading comprehension", I've got a host of post grad education (not that it matters for anything). Just because people don't "agree" with your phraseology and you fail to create understanding among SOME of your readers – does not make them idiots. Obviously, because you failed to get a single point I was trying to make with you.
-I SAID the moment changed her life – NOT that it changed HER necessarily.
-And my point about "sin-inducing qualudes" was simply that God gives those apart from Christ over to a debased mind (Romans 1:28) which is incapable of comprehending the things or nature of God. Why was that so hard to comprehend? "This is your brain. This is your brain on sin…get the picture?"
But I'm done, because at this point, there's a failure to communicate in a way that's Godly, effective, or mutually edifying.
Don't worry John, there's obviously a few people out there who didn't fail reading comprehension and actually got your point!
Ahhhh. Relief. Thanks, Helly.
God, I just give up.
Yes, Ms. Prejean lied and has to continued to lie about the same things. She also, in face of an enemy who could do her harm, held to her faith and stated her beliefs irrespective of the harm that might or would do her. Later, in the face of continued persecution, she continued to stand by her beliefs rather than capitulating to the enemy.
I don't see why you have so much a problem with some of your fellow Christians respecting Ms. Prejean for that and lauding her for her courage when she showed it. I don't see or hear anyone applauding her for her lying though – though I admit many are just remaining silent on it rather than even acknowledging it.
"You can’t hold the hand of Christ AND lie in the way she is." Oh? Is there no room for sinners at your God's table anymore?
← Older Comments
Newer Comments →