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	<title>Comments on: How to Believe in God: Brain First, THEN Emotion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/</link>
	<description>Trying God&#039;s patience since 1958</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Tweedell</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-1/#comment-22186</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Tweedell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 07:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-22186</guid>
		<description>Note: #6 was not particularly rigorous mathematically, so before some smarty-pants atheist jumps all over me: I speak of an absolute infinity, and assert that it is actual in two specific dimensions: over time, for one, and the other being imaginary (mathematically speaking, while in an intuitive sense, I mean that it consists in the minds conceptualization (i.e. &quot;image&quot;) in such a way that as time is a phenomenon pertaining to the physical realm, this is a phenomenon that pertains to the spiritual). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note: #6 was not particularly rigorous mathematically, so before some smarty-pants atheist jumps all over me: I speak of an absolute infinity, and assert that it is actual in two specific dimensions: over time, for one, and the other being imaginary (mathematically speaking, while in an intuitive sense, I mean that it consists in the minds conceptualization (i.e. &quot;image&quot;) in such a way that as time is a phenomenon pertaining to the physical realm, this is a phenomenon that pertains to the spiritual).</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Tweedell</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-2/#comment-22143</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Tweedell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 20:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-22143</guid>
		<description>Sarah didn&#039;t say she was divine, just a prophet. As I recall, most prophets don&#039;t raise people from the dead, and most are in fact prophets to a particular people, such the nation of Israel, or the Lenape nation, or whatever else. How is she any less sane than many Old Testament prophets (such as Samuel or Isaiah, for example)? God is (according to the Bible) eternally unchanging in his divine nature, so why would there cease to be such prophets? Also, what if she IS raising people from the dead (in at least the same sense as Jesus)? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah didn&#039;t say she was divine, just a prophet. As I recall, most prophets don&#039;t raise people from the dead, and most are in fact prophets to a particular people, such the nation of Israel, or the Lenape nation, or whatever else. How is she any less sane than many Old Testament prophets (such as Samuel or Isaiah, for example)? God is (according to the Bible) eternally unchanging in his divine nature, so why would there cease to be such prophets? Also, what if she IS raising people from the dead (in at least the same sense as Jesus)?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Tweedell</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-2/#comment-22142</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Tweedell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 20:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-22142</guid>
		<description>What is the word for an essence transcendant? Is it not a spirit? like the American spirit, or a spirit of thanksgiving, or a generous spirit, or the spirit of the law, or YOUR spirit? What else is there about you that anyone could describe as spiritual? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the word for an essence transcendant? Is it not a spirit? like the American spirit, or a spirit of thanksgiving, or a generous spirit, or the spirit of the law, or YOUR spirit? What else is there about you that anyone could describe as spiritual?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Tweedell</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-1/#comment-22141</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Tweedell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 20:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-22141</guid>
		<description>First, &quot;God is&quot; is true like &quot;dancers dance&quot; or &quot;workers work&quot;! 
Second, how can one deny the evidence for the existance of Truth (which is God)? And what other word than God is used to describe where any evidence comes from in the first place? 
Third, the fact that something can even BE rational or irrational implies some sort of standard, some sort of Divine Reason, by which to judge it! 
Fourth, the fact that today you are and yesterday also were implies some underlying conservation law (which must correspond to some sort of symmetry of the universe), and so your life and corporal substance are sustained, and &quot;Sustainer sustains&quot; is also like &quot;workers work&quot;. If someone asks you what sustains, you know that the answer is--basically meaningless if no other information is provided, since this is obvious by definition--a sustainer. Any self-sustaining sustainer, it seems to me, must be a god! 
Fifth, why is there that symmetry in the universe at all? What is this thing? What is it that divides above and below? I do suggest the normative answer is God. So if you are suggesting a lack of evidence for God (as traditionally understood), you are suggesting a lack of evidence for any meaningful distinction between up and down, which implies a lack of evidence for the law of gravity---which I guess you&#039;re already aware of, as it is one of God&#039;s laws that you see no evidence of). 
Sixth, I could go on indefinitely, creating not just the sixth point, but an infinite number of points, but only if I could shed my human limitations and myself converge on the infinite. All infinites converge to a single point of infinity. That point I will designate God. And no, it doesn&#039;t have any particular location when mapped on Cartesian coordinates (to which it is the inverse of the zero point), but yes, it does exist. Indeed, it is infinitely close to every point, though not actually ON any of them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, &quot;God is&quot; is true like &quot;dancers dance&quot; or &quot;workers work&quot;!</p>
<p>Second, how can one deny the evidence for the existance of Truth (which is God)? And what other word than God is used to describe where any evidence comes from in the first place?</p>
<p>Third, the fact that something can even BE rational or irrational implies some sort of standard, some sort of Divine Reason, by which to judge it!</p>
<p>Fourth, the fact that today you are and yesterday also were implies some underlying conservation law (which must correspond to some sort of symmetry of the universe), and so your life and corporal substance are sustained, and &quot;Sustainer sustains&quot; is also like &quot;workers work&quot;. If someone asks you what sustains, you know that the answer is&#8211;basically meaningless if no other information is provided, since this is obvious by definition&#8211;a sustainer. Any self-sustaining sustainer, it seems to me, must be a god!</p>
<p>Fifth, why is there that symmetry in the universe at all? What is this thing? What is it that divides above and below? I do suggest the normative answer is God. So if you are suggesting a lack of evidence for God (as traditionally understood), you are suggesting a lack of evidence for any meaningful distinction between up and down, which implies a lack of evidence for the law of gravity&#8212;which I guess you&#039;re already aware of, as it is one of God&#039;s laws that you see no evidence of).</p>
<p>Sixth, I could go on indefinitely, creating not just the sixth point, but an infinite number of points, but only if I could shed my human limitations and myself converge on the infinite. All infinites converge to a single point of infinity. That point I will designate God. And no, it doesn&#039;t have any particular location when mapped on Cartesian coordinates (to which it is the inverse of the zero point), but yes, it does exist. Indeed, it is infinitely close to every point, though not actually ON any of them.</p>
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		<title>By: OldStuff1835</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-2/#comment-14899</link>
		<dc:creator>OldStuff1835</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-14899</guid>
		<description>It is most definitely about the proof.  Sarah has the disadvantage of claiming divinity after the Enlightenment when such claims were put under the scrutiny of empiricism.  There were plenty of &#039;miracles&#039; from plenty of &#039;prophets&#039; back in the first century. 
 
You two missed her the most obvious failing of her claim...why would God send a prophet specific to some silly thing like a man-made state border (the U.S.)?  If anything; her delusion is too restrained! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is most definitely about the proof.  Sarah has the disadvantage of claiming divinity after the Enlightenment when such claims were put under the scrutiny of empiricism.  There were plenty of &#039;miracles&#039; from plenty of &#039;prophets&#039; back in the first century.</p>
<p>You two missed her the most obvious failing of her claim&#8230;why would God send a prophet specific to some silly thing like a man-made state border (the U.S.)?  If anything; her delusion is too restrained!</p>
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		<title>By: John Shore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-2/#comment-14897</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-14897</guid>
		<description>Well, ben, when Sarah starts raising people from the dead, she can make any claim about herself she wants to. It&#039;s all about the proof. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, ben, when Sarah starts raising people from the dead, she can make any claim about herself she wants to. It&#039;s all about the proof.</p>
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		<title>By: benjdm</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-2/#comment-14896</link>
		<dc:creator>benjdm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-14896</guid>
		<description>&quot;Once you say, &#8220;I Know because I am the True Prophet for these United States,&#8221; you&#8217;ve officially marked yourself as crazy.&quot; 
 
(grin) Wouldn&#039;t that be an argument for the Lunatic horn of the trilemma?  Jesus said many things more out there than that. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Once you say, &ldquo;I Know because I am the True Prophet for these United States,&rdquo; you&rsquo;ve officially marked yourself as crazy.&quot;</p>
<p>(grin) Wouldn&#039;t that be an argument for the Lunatic horn of the trilemma?  Jesus said many things more out there than that.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shore</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-2/#comment-14876</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-14876</guid>
		<description>Sarah: Here4Years is right. Once you say, &quot;I Know because I am the True Prophet for these United States,&quot; you&#039;ve officially marked yourself as crazy. Which means you won&#039;t listen. So never mind. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah: Here4Years is right. Once you say, &quot;I Know because I am the True Prophet for these United States,&quot; you&#039;ve officially marked yourself as crazy. Which means you won&#039;t listen. So never mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Here4Years</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-2/#comment-14875</link>
		<dc:creator>Here4Years</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-14875</guid>
		<description>Sarah, seek professional help! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah, seek professional help!</p>
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		<title>By: OldStuff1835</title>
		<link>http://johnshore.com/2009/07/02/how-to-believe-in-god-brain-first-then-emotions/comment-page-2/#comment-14638</link>
		<dc:creator>OldStuff1835</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnshore.com/?p=4118#comment-14638</guid>
		<description>@benjdm 
If you are promoting certainty, then you are promoting extremism...they correlate directly.  
 
If all believers demonstrated a little humility and doubt in what they claimed to know, then you might not see non-believers feeling the need to engage in discussions such as this.  Unshakable (and unjustified) certainty afflicts a minority of the believing population, and it is those that I speak against and unabashedly ridicule.  If that ridicule offends or challenges the vast majority of moderate/pragmatic believers...well...there is not really anything that I can do about that until the moderate demonstrates the truth of their system of belief.  Failure to do so while demanding respect for their beliefs is tacit protection of the extremist. 
 
&lt;i&gt;&quot;Nothing but free argument, raillery and even ridicule will preserve the purity of religion.&quot; - Thomas Jefferson 
 
&quot;Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. &quot; - Thomas Jefferson&lt;/i&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@benjdm</p>
<p>If you are promoting certainty, then you are promoting extremism&#8230;they correlate directly. </p>
<p>If all believers demonstrated a little humility and doubt in what they claimed to know, then you might not see non-believers feeling the need to engage in discussions such as this.  Unshakable (and unjustified) certainty afflicts a minority of the believing population, and it is those that I speak against and unabashedly ridicule.  If that ridicule offends or challenges the vast majority of moderate/pragmatic believers&#8230;well&#8230;there is not really anything that I can do about that until the moderate demonstrates the truth of their system of belief.  Failure to do so while demanding respect for their beliefs is tacit protection of the extremist.</p>
<p><i>&quot;Nothing but free argument, raillery and even ridicule will preserve the purity of religion.&quot; &#8211; Thomas Jefferson</p>
<p>&quot;Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. &quot; &#8211; Thomas Jefferson</i></p>
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