1) 100% of the respondents (1) to my simple question "Is it not important that beliefs be based on factual truth?" indicated that, no, it is not important that their beliefs be true. In a weird way I admire Dale for having the 'nads' to say it so bluntly. I find it more interesting that nobody popped in to qualify it or contest it. The implications of such a mindset should be obvious to the sane, casual observer. It shouldn't then matter if the only distinction between Jesus and Osiris was their shoe size. Such a person can and will believe anything put before them.

2) Thom said: “Comparing Jesus or God to anything is not valid from the Christian point of view, so the arguments are destined to fall flat.” and "I was pointing out that for a Christian to set aside his beliefs for the sake of a comparison is not really possible. That’s why the comparisons fall flat." Am I to interpret this as the believing Christian can not / will not look at anything that might be counter to their belief? Does it preclude one's study of pagan religions on the chance that might diminish one's confidence in the truth of their beliefs. Please say it ain't so.

I still dont think you understand. But, I cant blame you for it for all you are doing is behaving in teh manner your belief teaches you. I dont think there will be much common ground when it comes to Christian vs non-Christianity. And yes, I said 'vs' for that is the nature of it. It cannot be any other way. for if Christianity accepted ANY part of a non-Christian faith then it would be no longer Christianity.

John, bless his heart, has tried time and time again to demonstrate that we all are not that different. He even wrote a book about it. Only, it isnt. We ARE different no matter how you spin it. (Sorry John). When it comes to Christianity the faith simply will not admitted that there are any simularities /ever/ with /any/ non-Christian faith. Christianity has a special connection with God and everyone else doesnt. You got God and I dont. Period. End of story.

I get that. Really. I do. Point taken.

But again it leaves us with nothing really left to share, does it? How can there be true sharing when one side will /never/ accept what the other has to share? Nothing I could share will ever have you understanding that I too know and feel inseperable from God. You simply will not believe. How could you? For if you did, you wouldnt be Christian. And to ask you to believe me would be telling you to abandon your faith and God for something alien. That is rude and I cannot ask that of you. (Never mind taht is exacly how I feel everytime some Christian tells me I need thier JC…)

Thom, I would love to sit down sometime and have a cuppajoe and chat. I think it could be fun. But I fear it would be fruitless for I know where the converstation will probably end up and, well, I really dont want any more of those kinds of talks. It always ends up too ….depressing.

So on the two sides of the chasm we will remain. The haves and have-nots.

Maybe some day we may have that cuppajoe, Thom. Someday. God willing we may finally bridge that chasm.

I just dont think that day will come in my lifetime….

Peace to you,

~julia

It is really unfortunate that the Christians you have encountered have been so calloused and casual about other people's faiths. It does come across as uncaring and unloving. One thing you need to understand about Christians is that we do live under the belief that "He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father but through Him." That being the basis of the belief, Christianity does not lend itself to a compromising acceptance of other faiths as a valid entry point for eternal life. Still, Christians are to exhibit grace and love, or their witness is truly of little value. As a Christian I have often been embarrassed by the off-putting way some Christians treat non-believers or people who have differing beliefs. You have apparently run into more than your fair share of those types of Christians . . . and I'm sorry.

Christians do believe Christ it the only option. However this is no reason not to engage in conversation someone who believes differently. Unfortunately, there are a great number of Christians who are pretty light when it comes to being able to defend their beliefs. We all need to study more, believers and nonbelievers alike, so we can articulate why we do or do not believe.

In the statement I made to Mike, which you commented on, I was pointing out that for a Christian to set aside his beliefs for the sake of a comparison is not really possible. That's why the comparisons fall flat. If you truly are "born again," you and your faith become inseparable. It's important to realize from the start what you are doing when you accept Christ. It is not designed to be an on again-off again relationship and shouldn't be entered into lightly.

The people you have know who cut you off abruptly for some invented appointment treated you rudely and put forth a false image of Christianity. Again, I'm sorry. Thankfully, they, like me when I fail and fall short, have a God who forgives. Had I the opportunity to visit with you, I would share my table, my hospitality and my humor . . . and my faith . . . hopefully without insulting your intelligence or your set of beliefs.

Thom

Um, excuse me? May I offer my tiny little opinion? I promise to leave soon as I do. Ok? Thanks!

Pardon to interrupt. But…I've stayed out of the discussion with Thom and Mike and Co. for the most part -quite interesting if not predictable, btw- but this little ditty caught my eye and I had to respond:

Thom said: "Comparing Jesus or God to anything is not valid from the Christian point of view, so the arguments are destined to fall flat."

If I may say then; Well of course they would fall flat! Duh.

In my experiences (being -*gasp!*- non-Christian and all) I've pretty much learned that: If it aint Christ it aint right. Which pretty much silences /any/ discusion with any other viewpoint; and often the person outside the Chrisian faith. The non-Christian viewpoint is automatically tossed into the 'Invald' pile and there it ends. Shut down. End of story. Next contestant please.

I've found this highly frustrating. I have sat down with folks of other faiths many times where we had shared wonderful and meaningful dialogue. They are always pleasent and polite, knowegable and a delight to meet. Native Elders, Jews, Hindus, Tibetan Monks, non-Christians of every stripe. And never once did I ever hear; 'What your faith believes is wrong. THIS is how you should believe…" Beautiful people all who were more than willing to share their table and their hospitality and humor.

But (hey, y'all knew this was coming, right?) when I sit down with a Christian they often become uneasy and nervouse. All too soon the sharing becomes lopsided at best, shut down at worst. Sadly, most discusions end adbruptly and with the expected proselytizing attempt; 'You really should meet Jesus…' and suddenly they're late for some forgotten dentist appointment or sumsuch and off they hurry.

And I'm baffled by that. Maybe I am naive or just plain ignorant but I always thought that sharing goes both ways? Well, its supposed to anyways. Isnt it….?

:-/

So. Well….um…. How about them Phillies and Yankees….?

Ok,ok. I'll leave now. Sorry to interupt.

Kthxbai.

*** ducks back out the door***

Comparing Jesus or God to anything is not valid from the Christian point of view, so the arguments are destined to fall flat. Nothing is comparable to the Creator. Your argument is not new and was taken up repeatedly in the Old and New Testaments as pagan religions clung to their idols and worshiped other Gods, just a many today worship science. There was a long period of time when basically everyone just wanted all the gods to be fine. For instance, read the Book of Daniel and see how well that worked out . . . and remember, it's prophetic.

Arguing for the sake of argument ends up nowhere. You want to put your faith in something tangible, but what you don't realize is that the presence of God in a Christian's life is very tangible. You want people to give up something they already have; we would prefer to offer you something you are lacking.

Thom

…and I am terrible at driving viewers to my blog