Regarding, how an encounter with Jesus (or his "ghost") might be transformative, I'll just offer John as case in point. Evidently you have some admiration for his position (you keep coming back here), and I think his story is a great example of Jesus making things wildly different.

Regarding the idea that Jesus' words have been modified/enhanced/corrupted to meet the agendas of men, I would have to agree, at least extra-biblically. Within the context of scripture, I wouldn't give that up so easily. Either way, though, the things you believe about him come from the same source as the things you disbelieve. How can you tell what works, other than your own conscience, and do you really trust your conscience to divide the good from the bad without bias?

Now, I really love your attitude about the other stuff. I'm curious about what you see in the phrase "God loves you," in terms of that capital-g God. Who is that for you and how do you come to those ideas?

Beyond that, though, I truly admire the path you're on regarding the pursuit of unequivocal, unconditional love. Of course, I believe the truth of that is all in Jesus, but if you're on that path, I wonder how far you could be from Him.

As you asked, "God loves you. Pretty transforming, yes?"

Yes.

Earlier in this line of comments, you mention your daughter. I'd love to hear more of that story. Sincerely. But maybe that's too much in this context.

Thanks for the great exchange. Be the peace!

Dale

Now cut it out; y’all are gonna give me a complex…

Thanx. Srsly.

~julia

You said: “If you truly embrace him, having such an encounter with his “ghost”, yes we believe your life could be so transformed. Really.”

Really? Really really?

If I may ask; transformed /how/ exactly? What is it I’m to expect? I am curious as to how this particular ‘ghost’ is any more special than others.

You also said: “As far as Jesus being a hippy, it’s a nice picture, but I have to say, it’s a partial picture. He had some pretty ugly words to say to lots of folks, and it wasn’t all about the hippy platform. I’m curious, from where did you get that impression?”

Well, it’s all that God loves you and love and treat thy neighbor as you would yourself stuff. Pretty straight forward.

I feel a lot of folks put a lot of words in JC’s mouth and made some extraordinary claims about him. The whole bible is full of some extraordinary claims and stories. I mean really, think about it. And yes, I feel many of them are just that; stories. Tribal legends, myths and stories with a smattering of history in there. Putting that all aside one must look at the whole thing with common sense and their gut. To me JC was a simple man of peace in a time not so peaceful. He found the simple message of ‘God loves you’ to be the single most important truth there is. Remove all the other stuff including hell and damnation – for those are based in fear and /not/ love- and the whole son of God stuff and you have a simple man with a simple yet profound message.

IOW’s for me it is not so much the teacher but the teachings. What JC was trying to say is what is important, not who is supposedly was. Man, Rabbi, rebel, hippy, all that doesn’t matter. It is what he was trying to say that is the message:

God loves you.

That’s it.

No need to make a god out of the man, no need to make a religion of the message, no need to beat people over the head with it.

God loves you.

Pretty transforming, yes?

Just take the message of ‘God loves you’ into your lives and out into the world and live it.
Pretty simple, yes?

And a pretty tall order. I mean, gee, love ourselves and each other like God loves us? Really? That’s it? Wow.

Think we can do it?

I think we can. But it’s gonna take a whole lot of practice and patience to do so. But, hey, God has faith in us that we CAN do it. And with that kind of support backing us, well, what are we afraid of…?

As the slogan goes: Just do it.

So, lets!

Be The Peace,

~julia

“for without Me you can do nothing.”

“[God] make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.”

and a defiant verse: “But He [Jesus] said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Sorry I didn't quite finish your earlier post — it appears that I pretty much said the same thing you did, only later and less gently. Oops!

All I know is that when it comes to picking and choosing scriptures to follow, I generally don't pick the ones, for example, where women cover their heads in silence. Of course, that was a Pauline letter so the scripturosity may be debated.

You'll think this is patronizing, but your questions are very legit. So, here are some blunt answers from my humble perch (sans tomatoes or stones or any other ammunition.)

Yes, that's what we're asking you to believe about Saul/Paul. If Saul had the supposed encounter with Jesus, yes, we're crazy enough to believe he would have been so transformed.

Yes, that's what we're asking you to believe about Jesus. If you truly embrace him, having such an encounter with his "ghost", yes we believe your life could be so transformed. Really.

Yes, I know that's crazy. Yes, it seems completely ignorant of reality, but that's the thing with all of this Christian stuff. It doesn't line up with any of the typical human paradigm. It's weird. But that's what we believe.

As far as Jesus being a hippy, it's a nice picture, but I have to say, it's a partial picture. He had some pretty ugly words to say to lots of folks, and it wasn't all about the hippy platform. I'm curious, from where did you get that impression?

Anyway, thanks for sticking with us. Contrary to your expected response, I think we could learn a lot about our faith by dealing with your blunt questions.

Leonardo – agreed that scriptured must be revered for what it is: foundational authority and essential to our faith. Even if we can't all agree on the degree of it's perfection, we must agree it's the best we've got, and it's pretty amazing. God knows I love that book, even if I struggle to comprehend it.

I just wonder if we should set it up as a barricade which people have to deal with in order to get to Jesus. I mean, do people have to overcome all of the questions about scripture before embracing Jesus, or can they just go straight to Jesus and allow him to help them figure out how to handle scripture?

Paul suffered the same problems: "for he [Paul] vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ." ayay it's human nature: