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{ 126 comments… read them below or add one }
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It will never be appropriate for 'men to lie with men' or 'women to lie with women'. It is perverse.
And that, Linda, is your personal opinion. Nothing more.
I am not confused, miserable, or scared. I believe homosexuality is wrong. Period!
And you are contributing to gay kids killing themselves because your need to be right is more important to you then them. Period. God have mercy on you. I mean that.
Ah yes, the ol' "God said it, I believe it and that settles it" argument. Period.
You are confused. You are misinformed. And usually, people who really need someone to hate have a lot of self-loathing going on inside.
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxfWl1vA1u4
Listen to this: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?stor…
You really need to educate yourself before you speak so publicly on something like this.
Mindy, I watched both pieces.
Well, the second one was a “listen,” not a “watch,” – but I’m glad. And you feel . . . nothing?
You "watched" the second? It's an audio file, I'm confused.
DR, are you saying gay teens kill themselves because of Christianity? Is that what you meant by 'killing themselves as a result of that theology'? What is the Jewish stance on homosexuality? How do Muslems handle it? What about Mormons? Do most religions frown upon homosexuality?
Could there be a reason for that?
Linda,
Your theology – what you are expressing here today on this blog – is part of a message that gay kids receive that drives them into despair and results in them killing themselves. After working with homeless kids for years and their Christian parents who kicked them out of their loving Christian homes for being gay? Almost verbatim, quoting the exact same thing that you have quoted here? Yes, those of you who are offering this message to gay children – regardless of how much you love them or are horrified that they die – are responsible.
You can play the "look over there" game in terms of other religions all you want to, but as Christians we claim that Jesus is the only way to the Father. Do the math and take responsibility for your choice to be right instead of love the little ones that God loves.
I should be more precise and say *some* of the responsibility. Any at all is horrifying, and to play semantics is a tragedy but I'm being proactive given I've heard this song on my dance card before. Going with this theme, only *some* Muslims kill their gay children outright. Again, goes without saying etc. but these discrepancies are used as straw men so let's take them off the table.
And Muslims kill their children outright. We just do it passively. Did you have any other questions?
Yes, Linda, there could indeed be a reason for that: a bad reason, to be sure, but a reason nevertheless. It’s called religious bigotry where scripture is used to justify inequity. In the same way that mormons had to come to terms with supporting bigotry against blacks and discard the notion because it was based on a bad reason, so too must all religions comes to terms with supporting bigotry against gays and discard the notion because it is based on a bad reason.
Supporting inequity to honour one’s belief in god is morally immature and ethically bankrupt.
Mindy, where did you get the idea that I hate anyone? You said I need "someone to hate'. In any of my postings did I say I hate gays? Just because I believe homosexuality is wrong doesn't mean I hate them. I can care about people and still not condone what they do.
Anyone who would place her theology – her need to be "right" – in front of children who are killing themselves as a result of that theology is a hateful person. Go and re-read Jesus and what He did – how He fed his disciples on the Sabbath. Ask yourself which side of the equation you're on.
Linda C writes I can care about people and still not condone what they do. This is true. But the problem Linda isn’t about condoning what they do: you don’t condone who they are.
Why do I scare you? Why does what I believe make you uncomfortable? It's ok for you to be pro-gay, but let someone like me who opposes homosexuality speak her mind and all of a sudden I'm the bad one. You preach tolerance but don't want to tolerate others' voices. There is no difference in me saying 'homosexuality is wrong' and you say 'homosexuality is ok'…both are what we believe.
We all make choices in our lives. If we think before we act, most of our choices come out ok. Sometimes we make choices that don't end well.
Linda, you scare me because it horrifies me that people are out there, openly practicing bigotry against people I care about.
I tolerate lots of other voices – but I don't tolerate bigotry, and I don't tolerate people who "oppose" homosexuality any more than I tolerate people who "oppose" those who have brown skin. Because you can't oppose a state of being. You are still acting as though it is a choice, and it clearly is not. Scientists and psychologists are in general agreement that homosexuality is not a choice. They have not yet defined what causes it, but they know something does.
You are wrong about it, but resolutely stubborn in your wrong-ness, hiding behind your bible as if that magically changes reality. If it was something that was subject to opinion, you could oppose it. It is not.
You've got it wrong. And I hope one day you admit that, before a child from your church or your family is done irreparable harm.
"You preach tolerance but don’t want to tolerate others’ voices."
The one thing for which we must never have tolerance is intolerance. It just wouldn't be just, not to mention that thus began WWII.
"There is no difference in me saying ‘homosexuality is wrong’ and you say ‘homosexuality is ok’…both are what we believe."
Sure: no reason to have any objective criteria—no meaningful difference between the two propositions.
Linda, I don’t tolerate child abusers, even though they might come from an abusive home themselves. I don’t tolerate racists, even if they were raised that way. And I don’t tolerate Christians who harm children, even when they are clinging to a theology and are too scared to let go of it because they might be on the wrong side of Their fellow Christians who are just as confused, miserable an scared as they are. You are, rather.
“Pro-gay”? Are you pro-blue eyed? Pro-blonde hair? Pro-left handed or pro-right handed? To say someone is “pro-gay” is absolutely ridiculous and proves you haven’t the slightest clue what we are talking about. If you purport to be Christian then all you need to know is that God made ALL MANKIND in his image and we are ORDERED by Jesus to love everyone as we love ourselves. The fact that you do not understand this tells me you need to seriously sit down with your bible and reflect on the fact that you fail in both of these.
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