Word came out last week that George Michael, 48, was admitted to a Viennese hospital for severe pneumonia. (Though he has cancelled the remainder of the tour he was on, Mr. Michael is reportedly responding to treatment and slowly recovering.)
Ever heard of a group called Christians for a Moral America? Neither had I. Neither had anyone else—until this weekend, when the group Tweeted these lovely messages:
And now Christians for a Moral America will be known throughout the Internet.
And what is unlikely to matter during its 15-minutes of mud-spattered fame is that Christians for a Moral America consists entirely of one guy: fury-fueled Keith.
It won’t matter that CFAMA’s Twitter account has 78 followers.
It won’t matter that CFAMA’s Facebook page has 117 fans.
It won’t matter that in twenty minutes I could get 78 Twitter followers and 117 Facebook fans by starting a Facebook group called Toenail Eaters of America, and posting photos like this:
It won’t matter how obvious it is that Keith wouldn’t know Christianity from a boil on his ass. None of those sorts of things will matter, because so many people are so ready to believe the worst of Christians and Christianity, because so many have so much emotion invested in the idea that virtually all Christians are narrow-minded, hate-filled, fear-based, hypocritical misogynistic homophobes.
Meanwhile, in preparation of the print edition of UNFAIR: Why the “Christian” View of Gays Doesn’t Work, I’ve been rereading the heartbreaking letters contained with it from gay and lesbian Christians.
And I’ve been reflecting on the inspiring phone conversation I had yesterday with Roger McClellan, and on the superb work he’s doing with his Progressive Christian Alliance.
And I’ve been thinking of the man who wrote me just this morning, an anguished pastor torn between coming out, and knowing that doing so would sever him from the church and congregation he has so faithfully served for twenty years.
For every one person like Keith I’ve ever known—for every person who’s ever fanatically endeavored to transmogrify the beautiful love of God into the horrible hatred of men—I’ve known two hundred who are quietly and humbly working, in Christ’s name, to make the world a better, more loving place for all.
If you’re out there, and you happen to read this, I’m begging you to bear in mind that I’m a Christian, and that a lot of my friends are Christian, and that a lot of people I work with online are Christian—and that all of us, to a person, utterly shun, and are revulsed by, the perversion of our faith promulgated by people like Keith.
We want you to take issue with Keith. We’re with you on that. We support that.
But please don’t confuse him with us.
Additional Reading in Christian Issues...
- From hell to Crazy Town
- They’re here; they’re queer; they’ve plenty to fear: LGBT students form secret club at conservative Christian university [now including updates]
- When evil is serious, it reaches for a Bible and cross
- Guest post: “A Good Week to Hate Christians”
- From gay-hating fundie to righteously angry lesbian. Now what?
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
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While I applaud your efforts to better the name of Christians everywhere, the damage that has been propagated has been so heinous and so long standing, that it’s going to take more than a few posts to a Christian leaning blog that may or may not be read by a majority of Americans (or even across the planet). The ugly “Christians” who have spent lifetimes hating gays and women and people of color and anyone not also another hate-filled “Christian” have been so vocal and loud about what it was to be their kind of Christian for so long, it is going to take some fortitude and counter loudness to change the opinion those of us hurt by such sayings have of you. It’s going to take more of the sort of thing the Church of Christ has been doing by actively using gays and lesbians in their ad campaigns. It’s going to take very well respected Christian leaders to come out and denounce the hatred of gays and lesbians. They must put it into perspective against the eating of shellfish and working on Sundays, as it says in the Bible, such that people will begin to look at it from the standpoint of just something different and not so much as something to kill us over. The horrible way we have been treated by Christians is going to take a lot of undoing and, I’m sorry to say, it’s going to take Christians to do the undoing. Sure, you don’t have to. But then don’t bitch when people label you a hate group and marginalize you as a radical religious sect not fit to be admitted into the halls of reasonable thinkers making decisions about our government. Either step up and work hard to change people’s minds or deal with how the world sees you – as hateful bigots that spread fear and murderous intent among the uneducated masses. I get so tired of hearing people try to say, “it’s not my fault,” without the guts to take a stand and work for change in their own community. It is you who actually deserve these labels. You are just as guilty when you turn your head and do nothing as if you were the one standing behind the pulpit spewing the vitriolic hatred and fear. Period.
That was you applauding my efforts? Yikes.
your comment is aimed at blog readers, right?
not at a guy who writes whole BOOKS of exactly the hard work you say should be happening… right?
Joe, you are right. But you need to read more of John’s blog – his one of your greatest advocates, Christian or not. He has done far more than “a few posts on a Christian leaning blog.” He’s written a cultural-altering book about it, that just came out. Ooh, pun intended!!!
He fiercely defends gays and lesbians, promotes Canyonwalkers, another Christian LGBT advocacy group, and implores his fellow Christians to do exactly as you say. Speak out against the hate and bigotry, or take responsibility for the damage it does. Those are the only two options. And many of his regular commenters are Christians who eloquently speak the same message – here, in their churches and in their lives. You are not alone.
Okay, the hedge witch again, just in case you wanna play the “you Christians” card. Lemme get this straight – you’re crapping on the post because the efforts of one guy aren’t enough to change several centuries of history that he had no part in immediately?
Piffle. Society and culture change one mind at a time. This one mind has changed how many? And may continue to do so because he’s put his efforts into a written work that can be passed on and on? Your name is false advertising.
I find this rather disgusting.
And for those who say that the good Christians aren’t speaking up. Jesus told us to be his example in all we do. This means meekness, gentleness and humbleness in all we do. Its not our job to get into rallies or be a part of sensationalism. We are to be kind in how we help our brothers. Theres a bible verse that says when we someone wrongs you, confront them. If they wont listen to you, bring a brother with you. Then that doesnt work, bring the church and they still wont listen, ban him from the church. No where does it say speak up and attack our enemies.
These people have their own agenda and are just putting God’s name on it. I know Christians over the century have done bad things..i.e. the Crusades but so has every other religion over the course of history i.e. killing Christians in the name of free thinking and free will. I get mad too like how any bit of religion constantly being blocked out of government but I know that my job is to love everyone regardless.
Im sorry George Michael…you didnt deserve what that disgusting man said.
You’re wrong. If Jesus had felt as you do, we’d have never heard of him. He changed the history of humanity precisely he didn’t say “it’s not [my] job” and he was crucified BECAUSE he spoke up and publicly challenged the religious powers of his time. He deliberately rocked the boat.
My sister is one of those evangelical types who listens politely in such discussions I’ve had with her in the past, then, so far as I know because we no longer communicate substantially, she says and does nothing in her daily or church life to mitigate the damage her own religious attitude promotes. How do I know that? Because she doesn’t share it with me, her gay brother. She’s a good, loving person in many other areas of her life, but in the gay issue, she has lost my respect….and whatever weak bond we ever had because I’m weary of being the one who has to do all the understanding and acceptance.
Should read “precisely because”……..
Of the 160 people who “like” kevin’s FB page most of the activity seems to be from people who just wanted to post disagreement with him. In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, “Whadda Maroon!”
Bisexual heathen here!
Message received. I embrace your efforts to keep your faith beautiful and relevant.
Blessed Be, my brother.
Blessed Be.
I am a Christian and it saddens me that crazy groups like this use the name of God to perpetuate hate & judgment and all that is against the nature of God. For anyone to pray for someone’s death like that… horrendous.. truly sickens (& kind of angers) me. How dare they the name of God for such a disgusting agenda! As a Christian I apologize to George Michael for these people who are not representing God in any way. Praying for him for health & well-being. p.s. – the toenail biting thing is pretty gross btw…
Please don’t be misled, these people are quite obviously not true followers of Christ! These are people who call themselves Christians, but live like He doesn’t even exist (aka, Christian Atheists). God’s Word, the Bible, says that “it is the will of God that NO E should perish (die)”. These people are so legalistic, they miss the whole point of Christ’s death on the cross, to die for everyone’s sins so we can all ask for forgiveness and ask God to be our Lord and Saviour. To wish death for anyone contradicts Christ’s love.
Sorry, that’s “NO ONE should perish”
(applauseclapclapclapwhistleXenayellclapclap)
Thank you for posting this. I’m a hedge witch that lives in North Carolina, a spot in the Bible Belt where you can lose your job, your home, your family and friends, and even your personal safety by not being Christian, courtesy of mindsets like Keith’s.
I serve as a priestess for a local multi-faith Pagan group, and we try to foster tolerance by workshops and interfaith events. One of our biggest obstacles with our own people is the perception that all Christians are more or less of this fruitcake’s (I will not call him a follower of Yeshua) stripe. I grew up with family who are, and I can agree with previous posters that there are more like him that many people realize. That said, they are still not a majority by any standards, even here.
They can gain an appearance of majority though, via lack of visible comparison. The loudest mouths get the attention, and unfortunately the media prefers sensationalist drama over anything else. And many Christians I’m acquainted with are uncomfortable speaking in opposition to this extremism out of some idea of brotherly solidarity or fear of being labeled as “enablers of sin”.
Qui Tacit consentire videtur, folks. I believe that it’s not Belief vs Belief, or Gay vs Straight, or any of the other commonly drawn lines. It’s Crazy vs Insane. St. Francis has been attributed with the quote “Preach the Gospel at all times; when necessary, use words.” Now is a good time for words.
Now is indeed the time for words and the Christian Left his is finally getting louder, thank God. As for unity, I agree that unity is destructive when it leads to permitting hateful behavior from those who call themselves Christian.
oh if it’s a case of squeaky wheel vs. closet-affirmers, i could buy that. that sounds at least half hopeful.
Wow what a bunch of fucking idiots ya’ll are. What’s wrong did your priest molest you when you were kids? Get over yourselves, what a bunch of selfish, egocentric, homophobic bigots.
Have a nice day,
Jess
Please tell me you’re talking about Keith. If you’re talking about us, you really need to learn reading comprehension skills.
Um, Jess? You might wanna actually READ the post. And maybe not drink so much before doing so. Because you TOTALLY missed the point.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not a deeply religious person by any means, however I have noticed too many “good” Christians allow their bad apples to speak for them. I understand not all Christians are like Keith but it seems the ones who speak the loudest are. I think it is time that if Christians do not want to be lumped into one group such a Keith’s it is time “good” Christians start speaking up, speaking out, and speaking loud and start calling groups out such as Keith’s and shun them, do it loud, do it openly, do it in public, start making your voices heard and let it be known invidividuals who claim to be “Christian” such as Keith will no longer be accepted . . . . .however the good shepard’s sheep tend to remain quiet on these issue, and for as long as they do I will continue to see no different between Keith and a Christian.
Please see my post above. =)
OK…
Then they should also consider not treating your body as a temple is a sin, a woman must cover her head, and Deuteronomy, a marriage is only valid if the woman is a virgin and she should be executed if she is not…and anyone who commits adultery should be stoned to death.
In Mark, divorce is prohibited. I assume for homosexuality they are referring to Leviticus 18:6 ‘you will not lie with a male as one lies with a female, it is an abomination.” A similar verse occurs two chapters later, Leviticus 20:13. Leviticus is a holiness code written over 3,000 years ago prohibitions against round haircuts, tattoos, and working on the Sabbath, wearing garments of mixed fabrics, eating pork or shell fish, getting your fortune told, or playing with the skin of a pig (football anyone?).
Jesus was clear about freeing us from the yoke and bondage of ‘the law’. It is so strange that these people pick and choose which laws apply to them, I am a Christian, I follow JESUS. I hate religion.
Beautiful.
we as a christian family must love George. The Bible teaches us to love our brother. It is the act of homosexuality that is wrong.
Homosexuality is not an act, Debbie. And as long as you and others like you keep calling it “wrong,” bigotry remains. Learn about it. More and more of the “Christian family” in this country is finally coming to understand that being gay is a not wrong, not a problem, just a difference. A simple difference, no more so than left-handedness or curly hair, or dark skin. The act you refer to is simply those people, who are different than you, expressing their love for one another, just as you would with your spouse. Please, educate yourself more thoroughly on this topic. The Bible didn’t say it was wrong, because it isn’t.
Homosexuality is NOT WRONG….
Homosexuality is not an act, it is a state of being. Unless your marriage is boiled down to having intercourse with your husband. Is that true for you?
Why or WHY do we keep playing into the marketing strategy these fringe groups have. The strategy is to say the most inflammatory thing possible to draw attention to their misguided leadership. A leadership desperate for attention – which the media (both old and new) heap upon them every time they say they want to “burn the Koran” announce that “God Hates Fags” or that the world is ending on (insert date). If we could all have the discipline to ignore them, they would go away or at the very least, confine their opinions to their tiny group of hate mongering adherents.
THANK YOU!!! I wont repost as requested to clear “good christian’s names” because it only promote this hate monger.
Brent,
I agree, ironicaly the fact the John even posted this, is exactly what they want. I, for one, wouldn’t give them ANY time on this blog, there are more important issues at hand to discuss than some wacko “Christian” fringe hate group. They’re not even worthy of ANY attention in my opinion. If we all ignore them, they have no fuel to stoke their message of hate.
The idea that I shouldn’t have written this story because in so doing I would only bring attention to, in this case, the lone guy who is this “group,” is certainly a valid point. It’s the very reason that I never write such stories–and why I initially rejected this one. But when I first learned of this particular story, it hadn’t yet broken. I knew, for certain, that if I didn’t write something on it, the story would go very large, and the storyline would be that this group of Christian haters had been saying these terrible things. So I wanted to get right out in front, and write about how it ISN’T a group of people: how it is, in fact, just one lone clown. That’s why I decided to write the story as fast as I could, and why I wrote it as I did. I tried to write the ANTI-sensational piece. And I’ve been gratified by the dampening effect I think it’s had on the idea that Christians for a Moral America, or whatever that guy called himself, is anything but one lonely nutjob.
Thanks John, makes sense ….
i am glad you wrote this article because i was actually still under the impression that glbtq-affirming christians were still the minority. maybe i know the wrong people.
I disagree with the statements about ignoring this sort of thing, based on what I mentioned in my original comment. I don’t see this as reporting on an incident as much as doing exactly what I was talking about; being a visible non-hating Christian presence. And via the comments from other Christians who agree with you, an even bigger presence exists.
There’s also that “don’t feed the trolls” doesn’t always work anymore. Some of them take silence as permission to escalate their vitriol, and I have seen whole groups, online and real life, be ruined because no one would say “no” to a malicious antagonist.
The Pagan community gets it’s share of GLBT people who wind up with us not because they really want or feel called to leave Christianity, but because of bad experiences with people calling themselves Christians. I keep a list of articles and etc. that I can refer people to when they tell us “They all hate us, they all want us to die”, and so on. It’s hard to argue with that if no one is speaking up to say it isn’t true. Your post is going on the list. Thanks again.
Thank you, John, for being so savvy.
I’m confused as to why this guy thinks this is a result of George Michael’s sexual orientation. So, being a homosexual causes pneumonia? Wait, I’m trying to find logic in the ramblings of a nutcase again, aren’t I? I’ve got to stop doing that.
My siblings, all younger, are evangelical types who would, if confronted, agree that Kieth’s attitude is very wrong, the operative phrase being “if confronted”. They are among the kind of “christians” who would otherwise remain silent in the face of such bigotry and might even let the violence it gives permission to, happen. They might use it as a topic of discussion among their church groups and their ministers might even speak against anti-gay violence from the pulpit, but not without adding the caveat that gays are sinful and deliberately choose to sin which, no matter how much they try to deny it, still gives permission for prejudice and violence.
They are the ones who should take to heart the generation old gay activist phrase….SILENCE = DEATH. They meet Keith’s sin of spoken evil with their own sin of silence.
I am a religious instructor in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As such, I have researched the Church’s stand on same sex issues. Their position, as in every case, is the historical position of the early undivided Christian Church (which is the definition of Orthodox Christianity). In one sense it’s position is conservative in that it groups same-sex activity in with other sinful passions, but it should be well noted, the Orthodox view of sin is not the western view of personally conscious guilty actions, but, as affirmed in the Nicene Creed, the Orthodox Church defines sin as both “voluntary and involuntary,” and so it fully accepts the reality of the involuntary compulsion of one born with same-sex attarction. The Church regards gay congregants the same as any others invovled in struggles with involuntary passions. It does not condemn them. Therefore, perhaps some comfort can be found in the fact that the early Church did not, and still does not, vilify gays even while disapproving of the lifestyle. It does, however, strongly condemn the hatred and discrimination directed against them by other so-called Christian denominations as sinful on their part. There are many gays in the Orthodox Church who feel very much accepted and loved. Despite being called upon, as all of us are, to struggle toward the achievement of becoming one with Christ, the Church does not treat gays and lesbians who aspire to that path any different than the rest of us sinners who tread various rocky paths of our own. And so this is the original, historic, and verifiable view of homosexuality in Christianity based on the teachings of the early church fathers and the practice of early Christians. We should take comfort in that.
Obviously, you and your denomination conveniently ignore the fact that the “early church” sanctioned and even “blessed” same-sex unions, until Roman Catholicism with it’s incomprehensible sense of sex as as shameful but necessary evil, got control of Christianity.
I urge everyone to do two things in regard to the issue of gays vs christianity; inform yourselves about the REAL church history AND stop conveniently ignoring the truths of that history. Suggested reading are the two huge historical tomes by Yale Professor John Boswell who did much of his research in, of all places, the Vatican Archives.
CHRISTIANITY, SOCIAL TOLERANCE, AND HOMOSEXUALITY, and
SAME-SEX UNIONS IN PRE-MODERN EUROPE.
http://www.gaychristian101.com/Gay-Marriage.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boswell#Books
It’s controversial in that some scholars have disagreed with Boswell’s conclusions, but it is telling that NONE of them have been able to actually disprove them.
The Roman church knows this (after all, it’s found in their own archives) and surely so does the Orthodox. Their cover up of the history is a blatant hypocrisy that amounts to a vicious, slanderous lie.
does the EOC also regard opposite sex attraction (not lust. just attraction: like wanting to marry one) as one of those involuntary sinful struggles?
I started to go back to church, any church..different churches… because sometimes I like to hear someone else read the scriptures, I like to see people, for communion…for spiritual food.
I don’t stay or get involved, I don’t want to be persuaded or intimidated into something ‘body,soul,spirit ‘ I have not yearned for.
Isn’t this sad?
I have had people ask me why do I think attendance is down?
They really don’t have a clue.
angie
Thank you, Keith, for beautifully saying what so many of us feel.
Ginny, are you actually thanking Keith, the writer of such hate toward George Michael, or did you mean John, the writer of this blog?
Ginny, you are no better than Keith (the writer of the blog) is…Your hate is what makes you so “Un-Christian”
Jesus said: “You will know them by their fruit.”
The Institutional Church as we know it is failing to shepherd the flock with love and tenderness as Jesus instructed. Instead she has taken up the rod – through hateful, judgmental stances she attempts to control the flock. Sheep respond to tenderness (used to raise them) and respond to gentle calls from the Shepherd – hence the imagery used by Christ. She has placed stumbling blocks in the paths of the faithful. In all denominations sheep no longer look to the hierarchy for guidance. They trust and follow their hearts wherein the Holy Spirit dwells and speaks. WE..the faithful…united with Christ are the Church…the Body of Christ. Those who preach hate in Christ’s names are the false prophets He spoke of. Yes, some will be lead astray but with hope and prayers for them…their false prophets will be uncloaked…and they will find their way back to the fold. The new Church will arise even as we witness the death throws of the “dead” traditional church corrupted by power hungry persons. This is happening in my own Faith Community – Catholicism. While others bemoan Catholics rejecting the distorted teachings of some Bishops and our Pontiff, I celebrate the revitalization of my Faith…Namaste…David
We who are followers of Christ can not let the voices of hate who try to hang out among us to be the only voice that is heard. Look at Jesus’ example. He preached an opposing message to the one being preached by the religious in His day and he did not let their in-example douse the fire of His example. We must be visible, and vocal and declare from the roof tops that our God is not one of judgement and hate and anyone who says that is not of god just as the scriptures say they are not of God. Luke 9: 51When the days were approaching for His ascension, He was determined to go to Jerusalem; 52and He sent messengers on ahead of Him, and they went and entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him. 53But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem. 54When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” 55But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; 56for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”] And they went on to another village. This is the example we are to live by and bodly proclaim it!
Jesus NEVER…NOT ONCE…condemned another person…not one person…sinners (He had the right, authority of judgment) were called to return to God…the Pharisees were chastised…exposed as hypocrites…but never condemned. Yet this so called “Christians” speak loudly while true followers of Christ work and live in humble silence…His message of service and love for one another. Once while showering in the gym, I was asked if I was worried about being hell bound. It was obvious by tattoos I am gay. We debated – I could cite Scripture as well as He – countered every hateful remark – claimed I was not worried – Christ teaches us to live in the moment – leave yesterday be hind and tomorrow is unwritten. Finally, wanting closure and to finish in the shower I admitted “concern” – aha – he said you are worried. No, I answered – I am concerned for the souls of persons such as yourself who usurp the authority to judge – belonging only to the Father – other persons as you do me – with your words of condemnation.rejection/hate – you fail to love me – impaling your souls on your words – if I am truly hell bound – meet you there – for you will be there before I. Pray for George Michaels as we should pray for any brother or sister who suffers – pray also for those who relish in his suffering and possible demise. Return their hate with love – which is hard – it is easy to hate – love takes courage. Namaste…David
Great article John but I am inclined to agree with Aliyah in that this CFMA guy represents far more Christians than you are willing to acknowledge. I have been a Christian all my life and was once a right-wing evangelical—(I am now a liberal Quaker)–and while I have met many loving, open-minded Christians I have met just as many who are mean-spirited, self-righteous bigots. In fact it seems to me that the more angry and judgmental you are the greater your appeal in many Christian circles. (Just take a look at the most prominant televangelists. They are all homophobic, judgmental and fanatical.) I find that very sad since the Jesus I know is loving and tolerant.
But you have no idea what I’m “willing to acknowledge.” I spoke of the Christians I personally have known and met, that’s all.
oh yeah i also thought you were saying that there were in general more lgbtq-affirming christians than not. and i was hoping that was true.
maybe you just know a lot of cool people. also you are in the west coast.
It was an enormous laugh to see what happened on the CFMA Facebook page. Apparently Keith (its creator) is hoping to get moderators to deal with the large barrage of “homosexual trollers” commenting on the page.
I’m hoping he’ll drop from exhaustion.
And over on the CFMA web site itself, more giggles: the 77-response closed poll on presidential candidate preference was won (with 53%) by “Santorum.”
Whereupon I reflected that Dan Savage’s “Santorum” was indeed an accurate reflection of the political views of Keith and the Christians Praying for Death group (or whatever the name is). Frothy, frothy.
This article really hit home with me today. I am struggling with even calling my self a Christian because so many people interpret that as an evangelical church goer, which is sooooooooo different from what I am. I am so angry with the church, myself, that I feel like I am just as guilty at thinking that all Christians are like the ones that have hurt me, instead of finding joy in being the sort of Christian that I would like to meet. Don’t get me wrong, I still live my life with the spirit of Christ inside of me, I just don’t give him verbal credit for anything…not because he doesn’t deserve it, but because I think his reputation among non believers is so bad and no one wants anything to do with us.
Don’t hide your faith. Be honest about it and who you are and what you think. The only way we can get the word out that Christians aren’t all like this hateful Keith is by writing and sharing articles like this one and engaging in dialogue with people. People that have only met the individuals that call themselves Christians, but go against everything we are supposed to stand for need to meet and talk to Christians that are at least TRYING to live up to Christ’s life and teachings. We can’t let the hate-mongers continue to destroy “Christian” without fighting back! If you feel the nudgings from God to talk about your faith, don’t let these people detract from your relationship with God and whatever it is He has as a mission for you. One person at a time!! Take heart that there are other Christians like you who are fed up and disgusted by what these people say and speak out!
Thank you for this.
I loved your post, John, and I agree that this kind of hateful comment must be denounced. God never tells us to pray for the death of others. It is immoral and unrelated to Christianity. However, you’re also correct that a lot of folks view this as being just what we’re like. If you watch the show Law and Order, if you see anyone wearing a cross during the opening credits, that will be the mass murderer. Pity that the message of love — (as the Bible says, “If you do not love, you do not know God, because God is love”) — has been so perverted by some and so eagerly misconstrued by others.
As C.S. Lewis wrote in The Four Loves, the hooker with the heart of gold is closer to knowing God than is the insufferable prig who sits at church and judges others. Anyone who understands Christianity knows that the whole point is love. Yes, we should try to change bad things in the world — drugs, slavery, murder, corruption — it’s okay to hate evil, but we are commanded to love people.
The person being used by Satan is the person who makes statements like “pray for someone’s death” and then claims to be a Christian.
Amen. And the crux of it is that Satan is using these people for haste and greed. Forbes has rated the Rolling Stones’ “Sympathy for the Devil” as the #1 conservative song. Satan’s greatest trick has been to deceive the otherwise “good” people into doing his work in God’s name. The people doing that in Jesus’ time were the Pharisees, the “brood of vipers”, as Jesus called them.
i lived deep, deep in the ‘evangelical community’ for nearly 40 years, and i have seen thousands of examples of the truth of the reality of what Aliyah is saying. it’s not just a couple of bad eggs.
Seriously???
Your point?
This is a joke for a so called Christian group to pray for George’s death just because he is gay. Your not a real Christian People (The group mentioned above).
I’m thankful for people like him, because there are too many people who try to call hatred love. They are far more dangerous than people like this guy, because they can get other people to buy their bullshit. The out loud haters, on the other hand, tear off that veneer. When we have the preachers and politicians of the world calling injustice “family values” and covering genocidal hatred with a pretense of religious tolerance, we need people like him to make blazingly obvious what it really is.
But I’m sorry John – this guy’s views *are* in fact held by a lot of other Christians. People aren’t going to generalize based on principal. They’re going to generalize because most of them personally know at least one person whose attitudes mirror those of Mr. Moral America. How many people do you think personally know any straight Christians who are as loudly and proudly affirming as you and Kathy?
MA isn’t an unknown because he’s a kook. He’s an unknown because he doesn’t stand out. He’s completely unremarkable. Seriously – how many minutes of googling do you think it would take me to find 5 people who identify as Christians, and have just as much hate as he does? Have a look at the devoutly religious nation of Nigeria, where attitudes like his are not only the norm, but the law (http://www.npr.org/2011/11/29/142897972/nigerian-senate-approves-anti-gay-marriage-bill). One of the American sponsors of the “Kill the gays” bill in Uganda works for none other than Michelle Bachman, (http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2011/08/19/bachmann-hires-kill-the-gays-bill-supporter-arrested-for-terrorism/) who is currently running for presdient and found most of her support because she also hates teh ghey. The genocidal hatred in Africa isn’t occuring in a vacuum – it’s being stoked by American evangelicals (http://blog.beliefnet.com/beliefbeat/2010/05/american-evangelical-influence-uganda-anti-gay-bill.html). This guy is an unknown, but not an anomaly.
There are certainly a lot of progressive and affirming Christians in the world, and you guys are wonderful. But who’s making more noise? How many progressive Christians are outspoken like you & Kathy, and how many are what Dan Savage refers to as “NALTs”? Where are the affirming opposites of Michelle Bachman and Rick Santorum? The closest you’ve got is Obama, who is “evolving” on whether or not the state should discriminate against GLBT people.
As to what the silent majority of Christians actually think – I don’t know and I won’t speculate. But affirming Christians seem to have a problem that’s familiar to the GLBT community – too many are in the closet.
I agree, Aliyah, especially with your last point. I am an ex-Methodist. I left the Church because of the policies of the upper leadership. Discrimination is written right in to its Book of Discipline. I left because of the frustration and disillusionment I felt with the silent majority. Too many in leadership won’t speak out because they are afraid of dividing the Church – a legitimate fear, but what they do not realize is that people like me are leaving, and others will not join in the first place because we want our lgbt friends and family to be treated fairly and equally, and to not be told that they are an abomination. The Church will continue to lose relevance with the mainstream population unless it stands up for what is right.
Thanks Aliyah. Your post is great with one caveat. In your first paragraph it is difficult to sort out the people you are referring to because you use pronouns instead of proper names while referring to two different persons in the same paragraph.
Your first six words apparently are referring to John and in your very next sentence, “this guy” must be referring to the Keith that John is criticizing in his blog. So I am able to sort it out but I had to backtrack a couple times in my reading of it and put your first paragraph in your entire post context to get it. I also had to take another look at John’s blog to discover who “MA” was in your reply because by the time I got thru all the comments, I had lost track of the acronym in my head.
Don’t mean to be critical. I have a Speech degree and pick up on such things. Hope I’m just being helpful to everyone who posts here.
And I have noticed that I occasionally fail to follow my own advice to re-read everything I write, maybe more than once, before I post. We all get excited about what we are saying and fail to see what the reader may be seeing.
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