Yesterday a young man wrote to ask why I thought so many people are attracted to the preaching and teaching of Mark “Stop Looking At The Top of My Head” Driscoll.
Sorry. That was an obnoxious joke. A faux-hawk is certainly a legitimate hairstyle choice.
Anyway, I’ve several times been asked about Mr. Driscoll’s popularity, and so thought I’d take a moment to venture an opinion on it.
Mr. Driscoll, it seems to me, is
Okay, can we stop with the pointy-head jokes? This is serious business. Mark Driscoll is a very serious individual. Look here:
Does that look to you like a guy who shouldn’t be taken seriously? Of course it doesn’t.
Now then. Mark Driscoll is
Oh, c’mon! Stop it!
A great many of those attracted to Mr. Driscoll are young adults. This is because, generally speaking, young adults are in that harrowing phase of life wherein they’re discovering just how terribly complex real life can really be. Most young teens are filled with pure, black-and-white moral certitude; most young adults, however, freshly getting knocked about by the world beyond their homes, are unsettled by the encroaching conviction that things aren’t anywhere near as simple as they once believed them to be.
Where young adults have nothing but questions, Mark Driscoll has nothing but answers. He is
Okay, I’m just going to ignore that. But that’s the last one.
He is offering to the young adults in his audience a version of God and Christianity that many of them naturally find extremely compelling. And beyond that, Mr. Driscoll himself is
strong, commanding, powerful, unafraid. He is in control. And that can be very compelling to a young person, who is often finding so much inside and around them out of control. Well, they look to their Pastor Driscoll, and see
You know what? Fine. Fine! I’ll just stop talking now.
But before I just give up on this, I want to be clear. Mark Driscoll is a force to be reckoned with. You can joke around all you want, but at the end of the day, Mark Driscoll is
All right, that’s it. I give up.
Here is Mr. Driscoll himself to show you why he is most certainly not to be dismissed out of hand as a power-crazed, egomaniacal, anger-fueled, testosterone-addled showman preying on the insecurities of young people and daring, in his appalling arrogance, to imagine that he actually speaks for God.
Additional Reading in Christian Issues...
- From hell to Crazy Town
- They’re here; they’re queer; they’ve plenty to fear: LGBT students form secret club at conservative Christian university [now including updates]
- When evil is serious, it reaches for a Bible and cross
- Guest post: “A Good Week to Hate Christians”
- From gay-hating fundie to righteously angry lesbian. Now what?
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
{ 249 comments… read them below or add one }
← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
ROTFLOL!!!!!
*composes self…NOT*
ROTFLOL!!!!!!
I think this is exactly what I would have done had I been sitting in the congregation when he launched into this egomaniacal, scripture perverting, grandstanding, lead into what seems most important to him…the collection plate. Perhaps this is what he decided to try next after he threatened the entire flock with releasing the names of all the members who were not giving up to HIS expectations. I would love to have been there to get up and walk out while laughing hysterically at the at the incredible falsity of it all.
This guy is a total douche.
Really John?
That’s been the problem with much of organized religion. We should be going everywhere.
I really enjoyed the picture captions!
i just don’t see how he thinks he is actually helping people… pretty hard to argue against treating women disrespectfully, BUT- behavior modification is MUCH more complex and takes more than being screamed at… what a joke!
i can’t believe help but believe his screaming is more about his own ego than actually about dealing with issues such as domestic violence, or sexual impropriety (however you want to define that).
Exactly!!
Yes, because we all respond SO well when people scream at us…..
On the other hand, God’s kindness leads us to repentance, His unfailing love never ceases, and His mercies never come to an end. I know which approach I respond to better!
“And stop screaming. Nobody likes a religion with people screaming.”
– Classic Internet Monk
Y’know, as much as I dislike his style, I know plenty of people, both men and women, who need the message he’s putting out. Being angry about bad stuff is not a sin. Doing something about that bad stuff in the way you see available is not a sin. No, I have no interest in attending his church, but he doesn’t offend me and I certainly see his value.
I lasted all the way till 2:21. Then I had to shut it off.
Still shaking my head that people attend places where that goes on.
Anger = fear of loss of control.
Patience = knowing that everything is going according to plan.
Is God angry or patient?
IMHO I see a toxic combination of a man who uses psychological projection as a defense mechanism AND the old Shakespearean saying “The [pastor] doth protest too much, methinks.” How very obvious and sad.
So let me get this straight– this Mark Driscoll is also a pastor at Mars Hill Church with Rob Bell?? I’m missing something. Somebody explain this to me.
No Rob Bell’s Mars Hill church is in Michigan.
Those two men are about as far apart theologically as it is possible to get in the Christian faith.
If they were serving together…well the fireworks would be fun to watch.
It is confusing: both Driscoll and Bell’s churches have the same name. Cuz God’s funny like that.
Thank you! I also found out the answer on the internet. Mars Hill is such a unique name for a church that I thought it was the same one- and totally couldn’t believe that Rob Bell would allow such foolishness in that church.
It WOULD be great to see a theological debate by those two. Not only are they theologically polar opposites, they’re speaking styles are very different.
Pointy-head Driscoll: “HOW DaRE YOU!!!”
Heretic-Love-Wins Bell: If you just
Think outside the
Box
You would
*breath*
Understand
That your narrative theology
*pause for emphasis*
Has some holes
Come SNL! What a great sketch!
*their
SNL sketch…what an awesome idea that would be. I don’t know if I could handle laughing that much.
Nope. Same Church name, different churches. Driscoll is in Seattle. Bell’s church is/was in Michigan I believe.
just…wow! As a woman…just wow…talk about a few steps back.
Now, I’m not married to a man…….but i was kind of enthralled by his exhorting men to treat women better. THEN it hit me……he’s perpetuating the system where women get whatever guys feel like dishing out. If he really cared about women, wouldn’t he be encouraging them to demand respect rather than beg for it? And his brand of leadership is BS….ditto to all above comments
I do wonder if people like Mr. Driscoll understand the concept of “loving ones wife like Christ loved the church” What did Jesus do? He displayed respect for people’s individuality, empathy for their pains and sorrows, desire for equality and the removal of social injustice as well as trumping social norms to demonstrate that desire. And of course that’s just the short list.
When one demands respect they will never get it. Respect is something willingly and freely given, a concept that means we hold that person in great value, appreciate their talents and opinions and trust their judgments. It is something all people desire regardless of gender. Demanding it means you want something else, dominion.
The flip side of that biblical equation is similar, submission is also willingly and freely given. It means that one decides to trust an another to make decisions that will benefit the couple or group on a matter. They can also be assured that the one given the front line do what they can to consider everyone’s needs and desires, as well as be willing to get out of the way if the other parties is better suited to take the driver’s seat when needed. Demanding submission from one’s spouse is the same demanding respect. Its is actually a demand for dominion.
“When one demands respect they will never get it. ”
Yes, in a very important sense. When you put all the agency for that respect in someone else’s hands and then ask that it be given, you likely won’t, or it will be a poisoned thing that is at least as much patronizing as respect. If you only let yourself have the respect that someone else gives, you’ll always be either starving or insecure.
On the other hand, when you embrace your own worth, your own dignity, your own value, your own respect-worthiness, and then live your life in a way that makes it clear that you expect that to be mirrored by others and that you won’t accept anything less, you generally do get it. Not because you asked for it, but because it doesn’t occur to others not to give it, and you make it clear that you won’t associate with people who don’t. You retain the agency for your own respect.
And of course, when you genuinely understand that about yourself, it’s pretty much inevitable that you will see it in others, and respond to it in others as well.
Excellent!
Oh that too!
Love thy neighbor as thyself. If there is no love of the self then…
So, yeah, no one will give true respect to the one who hates herself, who erases herself, who submits herself to the postition of punching bag…
So true Brena. Learned that lesson the hard way.
Funny how the Golden Rule and psychology mesh so seamlessly together, eh?
Lymis…thanks for saying exxactly what I meant. By respecting ourselves we draw healthy boundaries around what is acceptable to us. Appreciate your clarity!
Perfect, Lymis. Thank you.
Jefferson Airplane released a song called “Clergy” in 1969. Interestingly, it was on the album entitled “Bless It’s Pointed Little Head”. It’s an instrumental; no lyrics! Do you think there’s a subtle message there?
Thanks Richard for turning me onto to some great music.
I was 11 in 1969. Two years before I found Rock & Roll. I’m still hooked.
Clergy is the first cut; not a song but live audio of the Fillmore East crowd reaction to the scene of 1933 King Kong fighting the biplanes on the Empire State Building.
Lots of booing. Appropriate reaction to this travesty of a sermon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2tr-UctURQ
Such a good post…and such good comments.
i couldn’t make it past minute 2. Thanks for ruining my special time with my Stone IPA
OH dear! Fear tactics; threats; shouting; shaming; patronizing the ‘little women’ – yikes! I say no thank you to his brand of religion….
by the way, loved all the photos – spot on!!!
Ugh!
As far as church discipline is concerned, I irritated my pastor a lot (as a progressive Christian will do) and when my mother got ill I missed nearly a year of church to care for her and go through what was easily the most stressful time of my young adult life. During this time the family’s membersips were terminated and we became “shunned.” A family that loved us at the church would try to discover what we had done that was so horrible and no one had any facts but everyone was sure I was the “satanic” influence that caused it. So, I have many people who have blocked me on facebook and one woman who later came to work where I did and embarrassed herself by trying to warn others of my “false” Christianity. Sad. But, I find, like Jesus showed with the woman at the well, that the dreaded “sinners” are really open to any real sharing of personal faith and bloom in the face of the grace of God. I never would have been allowed to minister with that church anyway because I refused to only wear skirts and dresses and no woman could wear pants in “his” pulpit. And, like I told my pastor when he mentioned the church discipline scripture about treating the unrepentant like gentiles and tax collectors, Jesus ate with them!
I watched 2 mins. and that was it. Enuf. What bull. total theater. I can see Christ now yelling at the people during his sermon on the mount.
I am sure that his “I don’t care who is looking; I’m gonna say it like it is” approach sounds like the comfort of real concern we are looking for. There is nothing wrong with tough love providing a strong support. With that said, it is a modern styled rendition of the same old story: give tithes, pray with the family, worship along with the songs and everything will be alright.
That’s the same attitude that says, “We spend on welfare and the projects and it does nothing to help with literacy, employability, or reducing crime.”
“We spend some money on them and pile them in the one place and ignore the intimate and real problems they have and they still are acting like this? (church, projects, either) The policing of these people is general, tough, and non-negotiable; why do they never act any better? I don’t know what else to give you people.”
Because the real beauty of tough love is not that it requires the one who is loved to be tough but it requires the caregiver to be tough. Tough enough to handle being real and vulnerable about my own struggles and to be tough enough to crawl and scrape through the desert of my own soul to real answers that really work for me -even if they are not the answers the “club of accepted ones” wants to be true. The real strength in the prophets of old was in their willingness to take a stand, not in the comfort of the crowds or powers, but outside with the truly lost and bring them back to their father. As long as the judgement comes from looking down on the sinner and the first step for answers or salvation comes down to attendence and tithes and the appearance of cooperation (singing with worship and praying aloud) then I am suspect of the motives of the tough love shepherd.
@Buzz – that was a brilliant and apropos response. Loved it!
Never saw him before this clip. a) I guess he won’t be voting for Gingrich, b) he’s such a jerk he makes me want to disagree with scripture just because he’s the one quoting it, and C) when he said “Sit right there, no one gets their kids,” it popped this into my mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
Great observation Peter.
Cultish mind control by force and authoritarianism.
Very, very scary.
Just read the post that was linked to about the guy that underwent “church discipline” …. I don’t understand that church and that preacher.
Like, the only frame of reference i have was a church my parents and i went to for about a year that had like 15 people and half of them were the pastor’s own kids. They weren’t even that freakishly controlling (although they got close when they said that if you didn’t join a church -not necessarily theirs, though!- you wouldn’t be saved, because of that verse about what is unlocked on earth being unlocked in heaven[?] something like that) …. What saved me that year was reading Moliere’s “Tartuffe”… A classic story of religious hypocrisy.
But i don’t understand how a church like that could be so successful. Like i said my reference point congregation was so un-successful.
I read a really good post by Kurt Willems today about the Mars Hill policy…worth reading.
Driscoll aside, John I laughed so hard I almost fell out of my chair in my office.
Okay, I get that some of his theology is still in the dark ages, but I have to say, I wish my husband would listen to him about how he treats me. He does not respect me. I wish more ministers, pastors & preachers would hold some of these guy’s feet to the fire. The lack of respect in relationships is probably why there are so many marriages on the rocks. And progressives need to do some of that, too. Because there are many (of either gender) who do not respect their spouses, g/b/friends.
I have to agree with Jennifer. I am NOT a young woman, but though I don’t like his style in this sermon NOR some things I’ve heard him say about women (and the hair is weird), I do agree with what he said about how men often don’t treat women the way Christ told them to: to lay down their lives…
But he needs to set the example. It’s not enough for him to yell at his parishoners. And it’s clear that he does not practice what he preaches.
And when the answers are the same blanket answers for every sin and ill: tithe, attend church, participate in worship (so we look like we are the perfect church and everyone his happy to be here), pray with your family, then it doesn’t seem like he cares enough about how the men are treating the women to actually come up with real answers. Church happiness is supposed to be a symptom of the reality of healing. That’s like yelling at overweight people to get thin and then they will be well but never teaching exercise, nutrition, check-ups, pain management…
Someone once advised me that you can tell a lot about the way a pastor leads his family by watching the way he leads his church. If I’m glad I’m not in his church, I’m even more grateful I’m not one of his kids.
Amen to that!!
Possibly the best response I’ve seen so far. Sincere mockery is really the only sensible rebuttal to what he has to say.
Sad but true.
I wonder if this is how he speaks to his kids when they do something that upsets him? I can guess the answer to that question.
I’m troubled by the number of otherwise kind, reasonable people I know personally who find him a valuable speaker.
They haven’t disagreed with him yet.
OMG! I had never heard of our faux hawked friend until this very moment. John’s story piqued my curiosity and after the tears of laughter died down, I clicked play on the video. I was ok until frame 1:23…. And then he freaking SCREAMED at me. Well not me per se as I don’t personally abuse women, but if I did I may be scared straight, I think. I don’t know. I’m really just confused. This guy is a pastor? SMDH.
I’ve only heard of him through the gay press – because (shock and surprise) he’s rabidly homophobic as well. And somewhat unhinged about it. (Masturbation is a sin, for example, because if a man is masturbating alone, it’s a homosexual act, because it doesn’t involve a woman.)
Bwahahaha
Did he actually say this?
Yes. Yes he did. Made a pamphlet out of it. (Helloooo, serious issues with sex. Go figure.)
Man…and I didn’t think my estimation of him could get any lower.
It is truly hard to believe there are people still this ignorant. sigh
Yeah it was in the news.
RODLMAO…..I hadn’t heard that one. My hoot for the day.
Oh wait…….I AM gay!!!!!!!
And like he never masturbates…or never did. Right.
Soulmentor, you reminded me of a great comedy “In & Out” with Kevin Kline.
Kline plays a beloved teacher fired for being gay. Despite being fired, Howard(Kline) attends the graduation ceremony to support his students. When one student (Shawn Hatosy) who got into college with Howard’s hard work, learns that he was dismissed for being gay, he and his classmates proclaim themselves, one by one, to be gay as well, to show their support of Howard and to thumb their noses at the school board. Howard’s family follows suit, as do his friends, and all the townsfolk assembled (in a scene reminiscent of Spartacus). (Wiki)
If masturbation means gayness, then gay people are in the overwhelming majority, and a tiny handful are hateful liars like Driscoll.
In one national study, 95% of males and 89% of females reported that they have masturbated.
http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/guide/masturbation-guide
Bottom line; Mark Driscoll is evidence against the existence of God.
In a way i think it’s really clever because you can’t get more same-sex than your own self, assuming you are a mono-sex person and not intersex. But on the other hand, ehhhhh haha. …. Um, perhaps we can take it to the same extreme in another direction. … Maybe the existence of masturbation is evidence of the theory that (nearly?) everyone is a bit bisexual. Which should also be useful in combatting institutionalized homophobia.
LSS, I like the way you think!
Mono-sex? Intersex? ???
When I listen to my old 78′s I’m monaural.
For a while in the ’70s I had 4 speakers so I was quadrophonic.
Now when I listen through headphones I’m binaural.
Boy George was quoted as try-sexual. Meaning he’d try anything.
Some men are buy-sexual. They have to pay for it.
If I enjoy sex alone and with another person, but not with 2 others, does that make me mono and bi but not trisexual?
Anyway, I like your comment so I give you all my interwebs.
Thanks! If those were actual questions (i couldn’t tell) then i should probably inform you that intersex can mean the people who are born with equipment of both genders, either complete or partial. Monosex i just tried to find the more explanatory term for the opposite of that, like how most people only have one set of equipment. There is also a word cisgendered but that is wider than what i meant, it means that you fit the gender binary physically and orientationally… It’s like a clinical term for having one set of equipment and being straight and presenting as the majority of people expect straight people to present…
for a language geek like me, a cool thing about being educated by glbtqai friends is that you learn a whole bunch of new words. Some of which are literally new, having been invented to solve perceptual problems in society.
Fascinating stuff. Raving like a lunatic and acting like an asshole in the name of God.
← Older Comments
Newer Comments →