Where was God when my 9-year-old son was drugged and raped? generated a lot of very moving and compelling responses. Reader Karen Miller wrote one I thought I’d take a moment to address:
My previous job exposed me to the most horrible, vile, evil things in the world. My morning meetings consisted of viewing all the photos of fatal accidents and crime scenes from the previous day. The photos of a vicious rape and strangulation of a 17-year-old girl made my blood run cold. No movie, no books, nothing, can prepare you for the horror of a violent rape and murder. I wanted to kill the perpetrator. I really and truly wanted to kill him. As I was driving home a sudden thought flashed into my head: this man, this horrible man, could go to heaven if he asked for forgiveness.
I could not reconcile this. I did not want anything to do with a God that would let this man into heaven. I was a mess, a total mess. I have a preacher friend and sought his counsel. He told me that God alone would be able to determine the man’s sincerity if he truly asked for forgiveness. And my friend told me that yes, if indeed God judged him sincere, the man would go to heaven. I still have a hard time accepting this. I have a hard time accepting that a sin is a sin is a sin. I have a hard time grasping the idea of loving the sinner and hating the sin. I no longer work at this job, as it caused me a lot of emotional turmoil. Some people are able to distant themselves from the victim. I, unfortunately identified with the victims, and brought their sorrow home with me. Sorry this went off topic but after reading John’s original post, this young girl has been on my mind.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that a murdering rapist who asks for forgiveness is guaranteed by God a place in heaven. The Bible is extremely, dramatically, frustratingly, resolutely, entire-denomination-creatingly unspecific about who gets into heaven, or how, or why, or when—or what it even means to be in heaven. Does it mean being a chubby winged baby who plays the harp? A perpetually delighted spirit floating around all day with the giggles? Does it mean sitting beside God, 24/7-trillion, reveling in the awesomeness of his … fabulous feet?
Do they have coffee in heaven? I love coffee. If heaven isn’t at least as great as a great coffee shop, I’m going to be pretty seriously disappointed. Not that I’ll exactly complain aloud. If by some egregious administrative fluke I wind up in heaven, the last thing I’ll be doing, ever, is pressing my luck.
I’ll just be, like, “Oh, really? They only serve green tea here? Oh. That’s great! Does this harp music ever stop playing? It doesn’t? Great!”
Many Christians are deeply enamored of pretending they know the rules of getting into heaven. But they don’t. No one does. And using the Bible to determine who gets into heaven is like using the IRS code to determine what size hat you wear. Except what size hat you wear probably is somewhere in the infernal IRS code. But pointing to virtually any Bible passage as “proof” of who does and doesn’t get into heaven is like pointing to a flock of two hundred crows passing overhead, and saying, “That one right there is the one that crapped on my car.”
Specificity fail.
So what can we know about God, and heaven, and the ultimate fates of any of us?
I have no idea. But one thing I do know is that I, a Christian, am absolutely, one hundred percent comfortable with the idea that God is nothing if not fair.
It’s not fair for a Muslim baby to go to hell because he or she died not being a Christian. It’s not fair to create gay people—and then insist they spend their lives celibate. It’s not fair for a murdering rapist to be ushered into heaven just because he said the right words before he died.
I believe that ultimately God is fair, just, equitable. And I have no reason whatsoever to believe that he (or—fair is fair—she) is anything less.
* * *
See also my Is God’s Justice Different Than Our? Hell, No!
And if you Google “Who gets into heaven?” one of the first things you get is this thing I made/wrote:
Additional Reading in Christian Issues...
- From hell to Crazy Town
- They’re here; they’re queer; they’ve plenty to fear: LGBT students form secret club at conservative Christian university [now including updates]
- When evil is serious, it reaches for a Bible and cross
- Guest post: “A Good Week to Hate Christians”
- From gay-hating fundie to righteously angry lesbian. Now what?
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
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I haven’t read all the comments yet, so maybe there’s someone who’s already expressed this thought, but my thoughts on heaven took an odd turn when a student at my church asked what Jesus meant about saving up treasures in heaven instead of here on earth. How could we do that?
Now, first, let me say that I think Heaven is a twofold existence. I think the Kingdom of Heaven is a present-tense, right-in-front-of-us thing. Jesus said “… Theirs IS the Kingdom of Heaven.” The things we do right here, right now, that are loving and kind create heaven here and now for those touched by our lives. The things we do right here and right now that are hateful or indifferent create a very real hell right here and now for those touched by our lives. Heaven and Hell aren’t just distant, theoretical places we spend eternity some day. They also exist in the here and now.
On the other hand, I also think there are places that are prepared for eternity– the place prepared for us, our Father’s house with its many mansions; and the place prepared for the Devil and his angels. Those places are substantially, incomprehensibly different than our four-dimensional existence of space and time so that they are literally inconceivable to our limited minds. But we understand our spirits go there and inhabit new bodies– bodies appropriate to that very different existence and yet, somehow, still we are recognizable as ourselves.
So, here was my thought: what can a spirit take with it to a spiritual realm? And the only answer I could come up with is the memories we have made, the good deeds we have done, the relationships we have built, the love we have shown. Those are our treasures. Every moment we spend in the pursuit of greed and selfish aims and hurting or ignoring others to build up our positions here on Earth is a moment wasted, a moment that will be burned away in eternity leaving nothing but emptiness. But every moment we love, every moment we spend with God, every time we build someone up, every hour we toiled for the benefit of others? We take those moments with us.
If Adolph Hitler goes to Heaven, he’s going to know the horror of what he’s done. He’s going to mourn and weep and grieve. And then God will burn all that away. He’ll dry Adolph’s tears– as He will dry all of ours– and all that will be left is the treasure that Adolph built for eternity. I don’t know what that will be. Perhaps his love for Eva Braun. His passion for art. But there won’t be much treasure there, I don’t think.
And so each day, each moment is a choice. Am I building my eternal self or am I loading my soul up with dross that will be burned away leaving me with little? And, in keeping with my earlier thought, am I making this existence a Heaven for those around me or a Hell?
“If Adolph Hitler goes to Heaven, he’s going to know the horror of what he’s done. He’s going to mourn and weep and grieve. And then God will burn all that away. He’ll dry Adolph’s tears– as He will dry all of ours…”
Lyn, I was with you right until after this point.
“goes to Heaven” Yes “know the horror” Yes. “mourn and weep and grieve” Yes. “God will burn all that away. He’ll dry Adolph’s tears– as He will dry all of ours..” Yes, yes,yes.
But after that, how can we be certain that God doesn’t give another chance for total redemption?
I believe that once all the ugly ignorant foolishness is burned away, what is left is what God created, in its original perfection.
I do NOT say this to give a free pass to those who do evil in the world.
Those who do evil in this world do not change heaven, but they make this world a living hell for all of us.
Would you agree that Jesus’ instructions on how to live in this world, would in fact make this world a heaven on earth for all of us, if we were to follow them?
I suggest that Hitler will not survive death as he was never spiritually born and therefore did not have a spirit that would survive death. More dialog on my blog. http://www.kansasbob.com/2011/08/are-all-humans-immortal.html
I don’t pretend to know whether God will give another chance for total redemption. I can only know what has been revealed and speculate from there. There are a whole lot of completely valid interpretations to be made of Christ’s words. I choose to live as if I have one life and then lean a whole lot on God’s grace.
well said lyn, no form of faith is higher than doubt. only the doubtful admit their ignorance as to the divine.
Wow. Do I ever utterly disagree with the proposition that no form of faith is higher than, of all things, doubt. (And that’s not why Lyn said.)
I look at it this way. Given the thousands of sects of Christianity that exist and have existed, the odds of me being absolutely, 100% theologically correct are pretty infinitesimal. Thankfully, that isn’t how God decides who’s in or out.
I strive to understand the will of God for my life and to do what I’m called to do. Some of that is going to be what all Christians are called to do– what the sheep did and not what the goats did, obeying Christ’s direct commands to love and to be witnesses and to disciple others (which isn’t the same as the evangelism we see today– a witness isn’t there to convince the jury of innocence or guilt, but merely to report what they have seen and heard).
But my actions are based on faith, not doubt. Not blind faith, which is an oxymoron, but the faith that comes of saying, “This evidence is sufficient for me to believe.”
Having said that, I recognize that I am imperfect, that I see through a glass darkly, and so I strive to find out what others have glimpsed and adjust my understandings based on the testimony of upstanding witnesses. That isn’t doubt, but at the heart of the pursuit of wisdom and knowledge. It’s the basis of the scientific method. And it’s the basis of Christian life, of working out your salvation, of studying to show yourself acceptable. Or, at least, it should be.
Lyn: wonderfully said.
Yes. Just lovely, Lyn.
“I believe that ultimately God is fair, just, equitable. And I have no reason whatsoever to believe that he (or—fair is fair—she) is anything less.”
Absolutely. And that is why I believe that God will treat every single one of us exactly the same… with grace. He will heal, restore, redeem…. SAVE … every single one of us. Anything else would be discriminatory.
Amen brother. Universal justification FTW. Boo to faith+works and Sola Fide.
..i did not read all the comments, just a few, so i apologize for any redundancy…
…there are so many good questions here…what IS God like? I mean really like? Jeremiah says that God delights in Justice, righteousness and kindness…but the world’s sense of those words makes me wonder if I’ve ever seen any of the three…
and like Kelly stated, grace isn’t fair…it is unmerited, unwarranted, undeserved– favor…
Jesus sees the thief of the cross…the raping, pillaging, stealing, murdering thief…and pardons the one that realizes he deserves the cross, and asks to be remembered IN the kingdom…and Jesus says yes…
One of the greatest issues as well is the fight between our worldly perspective and God’s perspective…one i may have met when my son was born…my son, who is now 9, is the joy of my life…from the moment i saw him, i loved all of him..He steadily grows and changes and inspires me…my heart swells at the thought of him…it goes without stating that the story of a 9 year old being drugged and raped immediately caught my attention…the problem that God has is not just that his beautiful 9 year olds get raped and drugged… it is that beautiful 9 year olds grow up–and rape.
I don’t know what my son will become. I love all of him, but he gets to choose. In God’s world, everyone does. Some bring heaven to earth. Some bring hell. the question for me isn’t so easy..it isn’t ” what do i do if my son gets raped?
…it is what do i do if my son is the rapist? how do i redeem my precious, precious child? how does God redeem his sons, his daughters…im sure the families hurt by the thief on the cross wondered the same thing..
the gift of God’s grace, the gift of the cross, the gift of solidarity with the hurting, lonely and poor…the gift of hope that God gives is for all of us…the terrible ones and those that are much, much worse…He just promises that He will fix it…that He will restore…and that He will one day wipe every tear from our eyes….
great article, great questions, thank you–G
“He just promises that He will fix it…that He will restore…and that He will one day wipe every tear from our eyes….”
Beautiful.
Love>Fairness
I’m not sure that I agree God is fair. Grace is inherently not fair because it’s not deserved. That’s kind of the whole point. But grace also doesn’t allow for a Muslim baby going to hell because he didn’t accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior (or a Muslim adult for that matter), either.
True words, man I am loving this thread, lotta good points made in here.
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