As you may already know, there is just now much controversy swirling around this video of Dan Savage (Savage Love; the It Gets Better Project).
He was speaking on April 12 to attendees of the National High School Journalism Conference, sponsored by the Journalism Education Association and the National Scholastic Press Association. The four-day conference, featuring over 200 sessions, two keynote speakers (Dan and Jennifer Sizemore), more than a dozen featured speakers, and more events and activities than you can shake a pen at, was titled Journalism on the Edge.
The conference’s promo material begins with:
You are already on the Edge. Journalists have always lived on the edge. Deadlines, and the edge of time. Facts, and the edge of truth. Authority, and the edge of free expression. We balance on the edge of legitimate public interest and the interests of those who would rather we not publish.
And there, amongst all this journalistic edginess, was Dan Savage, being edgy.
Just who does this podium-pounding pontificator peddling in people’s perplexingly perverse predilections think he is, anyway?
I, for one, have no idea what the world has come to, when a person who has made his career out of speaking, in the most unadorned language possible, directly to great numbers of young people about some of the most important issues in their lives, dares to speak in unadorned language directly to a great number of young people about one of the most important issues in American life today.
Besides the fact that he was raised in a devoutly Catholic home and is the country’s leading gay activist, who is Dan Savage to say anything at all about the ages-old Christian condemnation of gay people? So what if his claim is manifestly valid that nothing contributes more to the destruction of the lives of gay people than do Christians falsely and hypocritically using the Bible as an instrument of brutality? So what if he believes that among the most egregious of all Christian sins is daring to proclaim that God’s love ends where their own fear and hatred begin? So what if every day, for decades on end, Dan Savage has dealt with young lives obliterated through violence informed and buttressed by the bedrock “Christian” view that gay people are less than human?
So what if any reasonably compassionate person should be expected to vigorously assert that it’s time for all Christians to reject using the Bible as a means of justifying the persecution of an entire population whose only “crime” is to prefer to spend their lives with same-sex partners?
Why should any of that matter? What matters is that Dan Savage cursed. He said bull**** not once, but three times.
Three! That’s one more than two! Which is two too many!
You know, it’s almost like the people who put on this conference, as well as a small but now (thanks, media machine!) significant number of individuals who attended it, don’t even know what the word “journalism” means.
Well, thank you, young people who walked out of Dan’s speech the moment he began talking about the parts of the Bible to which he takes exception, for reminding us of what beats so passionately in the heart and soul of every true journalist. Speaking as a person who for twelve years made his living as a journalist, I admire your dedication to the journalist’s creed: When you personally disagree with something someone is saying, get up and leave.
If that’s not what Jesus meant by, “The truth shall set you free,” I can’t imagine what he did mean.
P.S. What immediately become a meme amongst Dan’s critics is that those who walked out of his talk felt bullied by him. But that’s impossible. People get bullied because of who they are: how they look and act, what they say and do. Perceived as being in some critical way weak or lacking, victims of bullies are selected for persecution; they are pulled from the pack before being pointedly and repeatedly victimized. The people who walked out during Dan’s talk were not separated from their peers by anyone. They were content to do that themselves. They were not frightened or cowed. They were offended. They felt that by disparaging what amounts to their God, Dan had transgressed beyond their capacity for toleration. And they were pleased to show their intolerance of Dan’s words by protesting against them in the manner they did. Theirs was not an act born of suffering. It was a proud show of disdain.
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{ 586 comments… read them below or add one }
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[extremely dickish comment deleted. We won't again be hearing from Bob Eastman.]
[comment deleted]
Bob. Go fuck yourself.
How very mature and original. Did you think that up all by yourself LOL LOL!
No. Your mom helped me.
BOOM!! You rock, sir. If I ever doubted your intentions here, my doubts are forever erased.
Oh, so you know for a FACT that he’s in hell with no other proof than what you THINK the Bible says? You sound just like one of the Westboro cult members. Stop kidding yourself. Ditto Matthew’s comment, btw.
What was it you were saying about peace and joy earlier? I’ve been in (theoretically) the same religion as you’re in for 35 yrs and people like you are driving me out of it.
Ok, so, that was the fallen nature’s response to the attacks of this apparent ape on this apparently kind and intelligent woman, on no other basis than her faith and his disbelief, and also upon Muhammad (S.A.W.), through whom a great and good and true religion has been revealed, to which I have family who belong, through my wife’s Tatar heritage. I acted hastily at first, so as Fahima would be more likely to see, before being too disheartened or discouraged, that Bob’s words are no way representative of such opinions as are allowed any standing of legitimacy around here. After that, inasmuch as the damage had been already done, and my doing so appeared to have been well received by others, and Bob continued in his immaturity, I willfully lowered myself to his level, rather in an agnostic spirit than any Christian spirit, and not merely in immaturity but in pride.
Now, Christ would rather I have said this:
Bob. Go enlighten yourself.
Go to Heaven!
Go and sin no more.
Fahima (if you’re reading this—I wouldn’t blame you though if you never came back to this site, after being so berated, and your faith so maligned, the first time you ever post a comment, one you had clearly put more than a bit of time, effort, and thought into),
We apologize for our brother’s arrogance and ignorance. What he was so unskillfully trying to say (and with which many of us disagree, at least in part) is that he has trouble accepting the authenticity of the message which Muhammad is claimed to have received from Gabriel and disapproves of Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha, arranged in accordance with all normative customs of that time and place, and in which we really have no solid evidence for consummation prior to puberty, and which we know ultimately left her feeling not victimized by, but beloved by—not resentful towards, but adoring of—Muhammad, and he takes a critical, though likely uninformed, view towards Muhammad’s role in jihad bis saif, as well, and wants to encourage you not to make an idol of his sayings (even as he does so with the words of his Bible).
Hey Matthew!
Sorry I didn’t write earlier, I saw the replies in my inbox but was too busy to think at that moment. also, i didn’t want to reply because, come on! that guy’s using LOL after every argument, i’m guessing he’s a cluless teenager or something. But thanks for defending the prophet better than I would’ve. whenever someone throws the pedophilia thing at me, i say grandmother was 7 when she got married, try telling my father that about his father. Although you’d expect the true religion to rise above context, i’ll let that slide, because there’s so many other, real bones to pick!
Thanks again for everything!
And perhaps, sadly, you’ve just gotten used to it somewhat, while I, as a Christian, don’t too often hear anyone referring to significant religious and historical figures in such crude terms! The worst that people ever say about Jesus (pbuh) is that he lied about being the Son of God, and only a very few ever say that (more often they might say he never really existed, or, as adherents of Islam sometimes do, that those who transcribed the Gospels fabricated such lies themselves).
By the way, in my believing Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, I do not mean he is a partner of God or a part of God but that He truly is God the Son, as one of the metaphysical persons through whom God is pleased to be made manifest.
Let me explain this: How would an angel bear God’s word to Muhammad (s.a.w.) or any the many other prophets (as the Qur’an says, there is a prophet to every nation, and I try to make no distinction among them)? How does God manifest even unto angels that which is of and in Himself?
Either He reveals Himself personally, or else some part of Himself. But we know that God is truly, perfectly one—so He has no parts—which means His true Word (far greater than any utterable by the tongues of men; so the angels convey it to men, and men must simply try the best they can to get it right in their own languages) must be God Himself in His entirety!
Thus, when God says to a thing, “Be,” and it is so, then it’s being comes from and through His Word; and so it is with any being that God chooses to have at all (which is to say that this is God’s entire existence, if were right to say such a thing, as God is greater even than existence and nonexistence).
What I mean to say is that, although I am not a disciple of the teachings revealed to you through the Prophet Muhammad, I do not think I contradict anything them in my belief that the Son, co-eternal with the Father (the Source of all things) and the Holy Spirit—One Most High, Most Merciful God (with one power/might and one glory), revealed to us in these three personages—is the Word of God which, through Mary the mother of Jesus, has come in to the flesh of Adam to be the Messiah.
However, even if the Prophet and I might seem to disagree about something, I think we can agree that surely, God knows best!
Thank you, fahima, for contributing your unique perspective on things here! And sorry for my comment being so long!
[ugly raving deleted]
Did you not read what she said, or were you not capable of understanding it?
[attempt to try screaming online deleted]
Could you give an example of this extreme intolerance?
[something that would embarrass even Glenn Beck deleted]
Do I sense a little fatwa envy there? lol. You’ll also notice that Muslims in the US lack the political power to enshrine their dogma into law; treating differently situated groups differently =/= hypocrisy.
we have the First Amendment, which would have to be nullified in order for Sharia, or even Levitical law to be enforced by the government.
That too. But for the 1st to come into play, you’d need some governmental body willing to cross that line which simply will not happen without some political power.
Oh good Lord.
that term could go viral (and that would be a pity because there are also good fatwas: example, there are many fatwas against terrorism).
on another point, there are gay muslims who speak against the homophobia that exists in their culture. this guy comes out of a christian culture, and is in a country where christian culture is dominant, so it makes sense that he speaks out about that.
[affront to even fundamentalists deleted]
Sounding really familiar there….
Bob, its not a matter of what “they” do, its a matter of what “we” do.
Do we obey Levitical law on any sort of regular basis? no- not often- what we do might be in sync with the generalities of it, but we sin against it on a moment by moment basis-
thats one of the reasons why Jesus died on the Cross- it was to save us from judgement which was deserved. If you work backward from the greatest Commandment, we can find that we have GREAT difficulty with that short commentary from Jesus- and until thats squared away, the other stuff pales in importance.
[childish spew deleted]
well that is a common response to the Greatest Commandment I suppose- however, we really dont have Jesus speaking about this particular issue- Paul might, but not Jesus himself… I wonder why that is really? We however are all in sin- and for the most part, it is elected sin, remember the whole “my spirit is willing, but my flesh is weak” thing- – so if we are to cast stones here we might find the biggest target is the one holding that stone.
[arrogant insipidness deleted]
Tell us something we HAVEN’T heard a million times, Imitator Bob. You actually think losers like you haven’t thrown that Romans 1 wall of text at us time and time again? You fail, as do so many other fundy trolls.
[semi-literate rant deleted]
I know it isn’t a Bible verse, but does the phrase:
“if you can’t say something nice, say nothing at all”
mean anything anymore?
Stupid, foolish robot who can’t think for himself. I noticed you ignored my comment about proving the Bible is God’s “word” (which you can’t do, btw, not even by quoting 2 Timothy 3:16). You just continued spewing your ignorant, brainwashed nonsense. Get a life, please, and go away from here.
a great deal of commentary has been written regarding what you mention as consequence for idol worship, and that the lusting for u”un-natural” relations was a punishment from God- not the thing that brought judgement.
but rock on with your world, and please try to resolve that view with Matt. 22:36-40…..
as well Bob, you do know Jesus was technically speaking illegitimate?
how very Old Testament….
No Bob – This entire scene was added to the bible some centuries later. And then the phrase Go and sin no more was not part of it. You have been victim of some bible doctoring by the early church leaders who took it upon themselves to correct Jesus lack of condemnation. See if you can find those words in the authentic encounter between Jesus and the woman at the well.
[deleted] you were there [deleted]
And who the hell are you to declare that your understanding of the gospel (which I believe is a bastardization of Jesus true teaching) is the only one allowed to be called Christian?
[clear evidence of a mental breakdown deleted]
Wrong again, Bob. Nobody cares what YOU think. If there IS a judgment day, then you need to wake up. Spreading hate is no laughing matter (referring to your ridiculous LOLs). Jesus looks for love in people’s hearts, and it is clear you have none. You are a sick, pathetic, little man. I’d feel sorry for you if you weren’t such a jerk.
Melody – [barely decipherable trash-talk deleted]
Bringing up Muslims is the Fundamentalist Christian’s version of Godwon’s Law.
Yes Bob, Christians like you are very loving as you drive gay kiss to suicide as a result of your “theology”.
Godwin ! Kids not kiss! Dang autocorrect.
I am a Muslim and WE DO condemn those unworthy of being called muslim – the people who use verses from Quran/words of the prophet (sm) to justify actions that aren’t justifiable by logic or conscience – ALL THE TIME. you don’t get to see that because a large part of that debate is happening in other languages (well, at least it’s happening in my language) or offline. But as much as I agree with Savage (Christians need to treat homosexuality-related content of the bible like the slavery-related content and ignore both) I will limit myself to bashing Islam-twisters only and will never extend it to people from other religions. that’s just mean and wrong in the sense that often religion and culture is intertwined so that outsiders have no perspective. if Savage does come after my religion/people, I will stop mid-sentence of my mullah-bashing and advice him to stick to what he knows. Bottom line is we can’t let ANY scripture overrule common sense and conscience. Attacking someone else’s religoin is more than simply bad taste. p.s. please don’t let it mean that people shouldn’t condemn Iran/Soudi Arabia’s treatment of gay people. those are countries, not religions.
very nice Fahima!
I agree with charles! By the way, fahima, I don’t think I’ve seen you around here before. Welcome!
Hi, Fahima.
Thank you for this.
I agree with this absolutely. If you aren’t either part of the religious community or culturally exposed to it, you don’t have the context to criticize it intelligently.
I also think it’s a power thing. In areas where Christianity is the dominant culture, Christianity should be the religion that’s getting called out on BS more than the minority religions, even if those religions have similar BS.
Hey Kelly! Of course BS is BS everywhere, but I totally agree with you on the power thing. Also, isn’t it exasparating how majority-religion people live in such cocoons (I’d know, my whole family’s full of ‘em!)!
More detail from Dan Savage on the issue:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/05/01/testaments-old-and-new
very good text.
taken in context watching the video sounded a lot different than the news media sound bytes. Hearing the whole thing vs the media version is a lot like people using one verse out of context in the Bible. I’m glad people got the visual of the sheeple leaving in protest at the first inclination of non belief when they stand their ground to promote hate and beliefs that harm others. I think Dan Savage was more than justified in ‘defending himself’ in reading the rest of the Bible which apparently was offensive to it’s own supporters
You may have already heard this “sermon”,but if not give this a listen……..then tell me Dan was out of line, if you can…..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/01/north-carolina-pastor-sea_n_1468618.html?ref=gay-voice
John, I would dearly love to hear you comment on this.
Done:
http://johnshore.com/2012/05/02/photos-show-pastor-beat-the-gay-away-was-coddled-as-a-child/
Someone else posted Joe. My. God.’s blog post on that very same sermon on another one of John Shore’s blog posts. This sermon is revolting. I wish I could say it surprises me but it doesn’t. It does, however, make me angry.
The comments underneath the article are, however, hugely encouraging, as well as the article’s report that support for NC’s proposed anti-same-sex-marriage legislation is at an all-time low.
People like him can spew hate all they want. We have allies. We have support
.
Commenting again, because something occurred to me.
This is just classic “model minority” backlash. Dan Savage didn’t keep his temper, didn’t hold his tongue, didn’t ask nicely and grovel. He said a few not-so-very-nice words.
Does that mean his whole argument is invalid? No.
But because he’s not straight, it’s automatically a red mark against him.
I’ve never heard swear words, per se, in inflammatory statements against LGBTQ people. But the things that have been said cut deeper than any knife. They’re things that would never be said, if the sayers were afraid of retaliation. But they’re not. They’re in a privileged majority, they’re safe.
Dan is somewhat protected by white privilege and male privilege and cis privilege, but I still worry for his safety. He’s out there, public. And he’s not watching his words.
He called bullshit on selectively picking and choosing passages of the Bible. He didn’t call anyone a name or curse anyone. He’s watching his words just fine.
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