(If you arrived here via a link in my HuffPo piece on Americans United contacting the IRS about pastor Charles Worley, you were supposed to end up not at this post, but rather at NC Pastor: “Let’s put all the queers and lesbians behind electric fences and let them die.” [VIDEO]. This post is a follow-up to that one. Sorry for that linky snafu.)
I mean … what does one do with this sort of thing?
I’m starting to feel like I’m living in some kind of Bizzaro World parallel universe, where … well, where no one ever goes to a decent school, for one.
I’m not saying that this woman is stupid; she doesn’t seem particularly organically stupid at all. But that she’s pretty dramatically uneducated is painfully obvious. She seems to have almost no capacity for the most basic kind of reasoning—the kind of reasoning that is the first and primary benefit of even a solid elementary school education.
And her anger is palpable; she positively radiates hostility. And I don’t blame her for being angry. It’s a terrible thing to even say, but the truth is that the world is generally a terribly harsh place for people who are uneducated. When you don’t know how to at all reason—not to mention when you’ve been trained to believe there’s not really much you personally can do to impact the quality of your life—your world very quickly gets and remains very small.
And people aren’t designed to live lives too small. You trap most people in too stifling a place, and effectively remove their hope, and you end up with people who during most of their waking hours are looking for nothing so much as a fight.
This woman would do damage. She’ll take a motherfucker out. People are always saying that they can’t understand how everyone in Nazi Germany could have supported what the Nazis were doing. And yes, I understand that many citizens in Germany at that time had no idea what their army was doing. But basically this woman, right here, is the answer to that question. People of her ilk are exactly how the Nazi army could have done what it did.
You put this woman in anything near a mob of others like her, hand her a drink and a baseball bat, and then point her toward some gays, or Jews, or Muslims—or anyone she thinks is either of those? Some skulls are gonna get cracked. People will die. And she’ll come home, throw her bloody clothes in her washing machine, down a beer or six, and sleep that night just as sound as she could be, secure in her conviction that she’s a perfectly good, perfectly God-fearing woman.
People like her get me itchy. They make me want to start storing food and buying weapons. And I’m not sure that in America today we’re producing any more of any kind of person than we are people like her. I think she’s the norm these day. If not, she’s entirely too close to it.
I’m not saying that I’m quite yet freaking out. But I am starting to get that weird tingly feeling that you sometimes do when it feels like there’s a big, ugly storm coming your way, one that it’s just possible you’re not going to be entirely capable of weathering.
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
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Nothing to be afraid of. He (and she) are getting more mileage than they deserve. But then again I live in Canada where life is much saner than down there (e.g. the USA)
That was painful and scary to watch. People like that vote(and run for office & win) unfortunately…
I didn’t watch the video. I’m not planning to. I recognize the look on that woman’s face. I recognize the description you provide. I recognize the attitudes of people who see ignorance and unreason as virtues. I recognize the sociopathy, the boiling hate, and the constant self-righteous rage. I recognize it because I grew up in it and I know people still in it. Don’t need the flashbacks tonight.
That being said, a lot of people outside of that community don’t know that people like this exist. So thanks for exposing them.
Several sayings come to mind:
“Don’t confuse me witth the facts, my mind is made up…..”
“You canl’t reason someone out of a position they did not reason themself into.”
“Never wrestle with a pig. You’ll just get dirty and the pig enjoys it!,”
The last one is comparable to “tossing pearls before swine.” It’s a waste of time trying to reason with those like Worley and his congregation.
No…fear is what drives people like Worley and his ilk to preach what they do. They use fear to control. Been there, done that. I will not cower to this ignorance.
Now. I’m officially pissed. REALLY pissed.
I finally watched the video… Anderson Cooper is my hero… What a HOT brilliant gay man!!! Obviously this woman had NO idea who she was interviewing with!!!!!! His demeanor was priceless.
Big ‘ol disconnect between the brain and the lips – that’s what happens when you’re told that thinking for yourself is “of the devil”
I agree. Ignorance and hate are as scary as it gets.
Hey John, Loved your post as usual. You nailed it brother! I watched the video and while this woman dont scare me I know there are people that belong to that church and others like it who would actually put words to action if they feel their backs are against the wall. The best way I have found to deal with people like this is LOGIC!!! They cant refute it, cant deny it, and to see them try is a TRIP!!! Break it down to where a 3 year old could understand it, and theres nothing they can do but say “UMM” and parrot talk the same old message. It takes all the power out of their argument! And power and control is what they crave. Once you take that away then you may with some be able to educate them in tolerance and acceptance of ALL. There will be those who no matter how logical the argument, refuse to listen much less understand. But its still worth a try.
Absolutely! This is exactly why we have such morons being elected to Congress, why Scott Walker is popular, and why the congressional reading level has decreased significantly the last few years.
Oh my God, this was so painful, i couldn’t even make it through the whole thing! i pray God opens her eyes to the fact that her jumbled thought processes go against the very CORE of Jesus’ teachings.
No. Fear is just what these unintelligent hicks want. They’re like terrorists in that regard.
i am more afraid that she is breeding
Yes.
This woman would make a good politician. She can face an interviewer and completely stonewall on facing his line of questioning, all the while keeping her lips moving. All she is lacking are rehearsed talking points to fall back on.
Wow. I kind of loved the interviewer though, he seemed really on the ball.
If it’s a bloodbath this woman wants then she might be surprised to find that the bullets could just as easily come flying her way. Times have changed and if she thinks only the swamp things that make up her herd are armed and dangerous, she’s got another thing coming. America is an armed camp these days, and the bigots aren’t the only ones who know how to use a gun. Just saying.
Oh, John, THANK YOU for making the connection to education. To the ability to reason and reflect critically on the information in front of you. To the fact that being able to do those things is GOOD and GODLY, not dangerous and evil. I go to that place every now and again, where I fear for the future and want to never leave my apartment for fear of running into that woman and her friends, but then I listen to my kids and their friends and I know that there are enough of them out there who do know how to think that we aren’t quite ready to go quietly into that good night just yet.
I swear, John, your words on a lack of education and it’s effects on human beings just makes me want to hug you. Sometimes your words are exactly what my heart needs to hear.
This lady is so stupid, you can tell by the look on her face she thinks she did a good job. I believe it was Mark Twain that said, “Dont argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”!
Sue:
> Nah, she’s not representative of anybody. She’s
> got a crush on her pastor.
You’d like to think. the problem with that hope, is that there have been NO other members of his congregation publicly saying “he doesn’t speak for me”
The church holds 1200, and probably has at leas 5 or 600 members….and NONE of them are willing to disavow?
THAT is the real telling point.
why are we giving this guy publicity…
Because sometimes it’s important to showcase stupidity in all of it’s glory. Vocalizing such hateful, bigoted sentiments as this “Pastor” has, creates a shock for a few, but if it’s broadcast to the world, it creates a shockwave and warns others just where that line of thinking leads, and that it’s nowhere pretty. People tend to come to their senses when they’ve been shocked into realizing the mindset they were believing as genuine and true, is nothing more than a cloak for deeply held bigotry and hate.
Michael… perhaps I should have expanded on my comment. I don’t consider this woman a threat because, in my opinion, she is too stupid to get anyone out of her very small circle to follow her. There will always be ignorance… the best we can do is share our thoughts with those that differ from ours. I pretty much guarantee not a damn thing can be done to transform that woman. Saddened by her sentiments…but not scared.
I’d agree with you if we didn’t have 31 states with constitutional amendments making LGBT people second class citizens, all passed by popular vote. Yes, she is in a very small circle, but there are a LOT of those small circles, and it’s really easy to create a mob from them.
I’d like to think that the days of literal mob violence are largely over, but these days the mobs use the Internet and the ballot box rather than torches, pitchforks, and nooses, but it’s still there.
You’re right that fear isn’t the solution, but we need to take the reality seriously.
I appreciate your connection to education, John. I strive to teach my students to think critically, write analytically and speak logically, but in a test-driven, multiple choice-loving educational system, it is becoming more and more difficult. I fear for their (and our) futures.
I’ve seen this before, (and at a much closer and personal level,) with people who are much more educated and thoughtful than this woman is. I think it’s a general human trait that we form opinions based on limited personal knowledge and more importantly on what someone we believe has authority tells us. Even when presented with contradictory logic or facts, we ignore them and stick to our belief in what this person has told us. Much, if not most, of human action and belief is not based on logic or facts and we are naive if we think it is.
Only Koch bros. & Monsanto together are scarier!
I’m neither shocked or surprised by her. Not. One. Bit. Don’t think for a moment that all the progress from Milk to Frank, or the President’s proclamation, or seeming acceptability thanks to ground breakers like Ellen, Glee, or Will and Grace, that this war is anything but just started. Prior to now, the attack on the LGBT community was just policy. Now, battle lines over basic human rights have been drawn and I think this will be practically as big as the civil rights movement in the 60s only at a more accelerated pace. Mainline protestant churches have been pretending to deal with the issue for 20-30 years now with almost no real movement. Conservative states are fighting back to protect the old order (LGBT issues and women’s issues). In the next 10 years things will settle out and we’ll move past people like this. But, don’t for a minute, think there aren’t plenty of people like this out there. They are dangerous, they should get your Spidey Senses tingling and they don’t mean to go quietly.
Some years back I came across a rather long essay that speaks to what so many here, including you Jamie, are touching on. I wish I could find that essay again.
The author looked at all the times throughout history society experienced a great sea-change. The main point was that progress always, ultimately, wins, but as these changes begin, and less-enlightened people begin to the see the change coming, they become scared. People generally don’t like change, and some people just can’t imagine a world different from the one they’ve created (or been told to create). So out of this fear emerges resistance, and this resistance escalates over time as the change becomes more pronounced.
Eventually, the change becomes engrained in society, but the author’s point was, as has been said here, it does get worse before it gets better. Most recently we saw this in the civil rights movement. As blacks moved forward with their demands for equal rights, and as those began to take hold, the resistance escalated to outright violence, even violence by government.
So, in short, it does get worse before it gets better. These people are lazy. They want someone to tell them how they should feel / what to believe, and this is even more potent when it includes religion, especially religions which base their adherence on the threat of “eternal damnation.” For people like her, who’ve spent a lifetime being frightened into their belief system, she can’t imagine a world where gay people aren’t despised, at least those that are out about it. She doesn’t mind the gay guy leading the choir, so that nice young man who has stayed single to take care of his mother, etc. (Don’t ask, don’t tell.)
So it does scare me. The Nazis spent great energy over some years teaching lessons in schools about how all the problems of the world, especially those of Germany, were the fault of the Jews. They engrained that belief, and that is what many in the evangelical church are doing today, and they’re not afraid to couch it the terms of war and militarism that are common in the Bible. So we shouldn’t be surprised if it ultimately results in an escalation to violence.
People like this woman have a small life, and they want someone to blame for that small life. It can’t be their fault. They are, like the pharisees, being good Christians, so God should be blessing them with a big house, nice cars and perfect children, but he’s not, so it must be because of some other reason. And remember, I think we can already assume she’s too lazy or scared to think for herself, so along comes her religious/spiritual leader to tell her that all the problems we’re facing in this country are the result of an angry God, but he’s not angry at her, but at the Teh Gayz…just fix or get rid of them, and God will bless America again. With a picture like that in her head, how could we expert to believe any different?
So sad & scary.
Oh, honey. I wish I could give you a hug. Seriously. Go find someone normal and smart and get yourself a hug, not the usual suspects like your wife, but someone you don’t ordinarily hug. It feels just awful looking at the worst of people.
Have you read Bob Altemayer’s “The Authoritarians”? He has it online here, and I strongly recommend it. http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Basically he’s done a lot of research into this, and he’s found that while authoritarians aren’t necessarily stupider in terms of IQ, they do have an inability to use logic. Specifically they are capable of holding contradictory premises to be true, and not seeing a problem.
Thank you for that link Allie. I have never heard it explained quite that way. And I must say that even among the love and acceptance here on this blog, some people get very upset if you even remotely mention another way of thinking or understanding or ask a question. At least it is nice to know it is a common “human” trait and we can find some comfort that there are those who will listen without becoming quickly defensive or lose all logic.
This so-called Pastor Worley is right up there with people from the past who preyed on vulnreable individuals who were like this unfortunate young women. Charles Manson, Jim Jones, and David Koresh all wemployed this same tactic. They succeeded in indoctrinating vulnerable people and leading them down a road which lead to their murdering others and eventually led to their personal destruction. History is reppeating itself. That’s what is really scary about this situation.
History always repeats itself, Herbert…the Smiting of the Other is a pretty old tradition, and what were the Crusades but a horde of frustrated, underemployed yahoos with a few leaders and businessmen at the helm, pointing them in the general direction of Jerusalem? I’m gonna go stand with Al, because my parents raised me knowing that there’s always going to be another pogrom, they come in cycles, and it doesn’t matter who they START picking on – sooner or later, we’re all in the same ghetto, and it’s too late for flight.
You asked . . . .What to do about this sort of thing? These folk are a minority of people whose elementary school teachers could not help learn to reason . . . perhaps because God made their brains that way, who knows? Let’s not succomb to fear of them, but rather let’s lift them in prayer for God to replace their hate-filled hearts with His grace. There’s little else we can do in their case, but hate the sin, and love the sinner. How about we place them in God’s hands then in faith we watch-out for a miracle of repentance!
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