So let’s be clear about this: Andrew Marin makes his living dancing around in the middle ground between pretending to say, and actually saying, that it’s perfectly okay to be gay. Like others of his ilk who have discovered the benefits to be had by essentially exploiting the gay issue (and even if your audience doesn’t yet, you “progressive” Christian leaders know who you are), Marin trades in the fuzzy, non-committal language that ultimately serves no purpose beyond allowing Christians to feel better about maintaining their conviction that homosexuality is a sin.
By way of demonstrating that—which I only do because I know some of you out there still think Marin truly supports gay people, and I hate to see you wasting your affections—I offer this recent Twitter exchange between Andrew and me:
Andrew Marin: [Part 1] You don’t know all the facts, neither does Dan. Pls come to Boystown & talk to me & all the LGBT folks & activists that [Part 2] love & support us. Open invite always stands. Would love to hang.
John Shore: true! I don’t know all the facts. I did read lots of your work on your site; I never saw you say gay isn’t a sin.
[Here Andrew greatly surprised me by writing that he has never said that being gay isn't a sin. I was less surprised when he quickly deleted that Tweet, and in its place wrote:]
Andrew Marin: Let’s hv a convo then. U seem like a guy wanting to communicate the truth & not hear-say. Shame u didn’t reach out beforehand. [Part 2] Just wish convos happen. Problematic when respectable folks don’t take 1 extra step b4 they make public statements.
John Shore: I DID take the extra step: I read the articles by you on your site. That took real time.
Andrew Marin: Then u noticed I focus on cultural engagement regardless of belief system; not focusing on belief alignment. So we going 2 talk?
John Shore: Tell me homosexuality isn’t a sin, and we’ve got ourselves a chat. Don’t, and we don’t–cuz then I already know who u r.
Andrew Marin: Tell me when 2 grown men must hv a prerequisite agreement before they can hv a simple convo? U nervous to talk instead of type?
John Shore: Why would I be “nervous” about talking to you? You play the middle for your own gain. Hardly intimidating.
Andrew Marin: All I want to do is have a real life conversation. Too much scapegoating online w/140 characters; not sufficient.
John Shore: “It’s no sin to be gay.” That was 21 characters. See how easy?
And that’s when Andrew decided to end the conversation.
I don’t expect to hear from him again. But I’m confident that if I do, he won’t say anything beyond how important it is to continue the dialogue, to keep building bridges, to “live in the tension,” to reach out in love, fuzzy, fuzzy, blah, blah, tastes great, less filling. Because selling that kind of sugar-powdered waffle is how Andrew makes his money.
Andrew: If you’d like to say about gay people what you feel you can’t in 140 characters, I offer you this space to do so. I have a lot of readers who don’t believe that same-sex relationships are inherently sinful. I know that they (and I!) would love to hear that you agree with them on that. I sincerely hope that I am wrong in my understanding that you would no sooner unambiguously state that than you would film yourself pushing a gay teenager off a cliff.
If you’d like to learn more about sneaky and squirmy Andrew Marin, read this. Or this. Or watch this video of him, in which he says this:
My beliefs line up with the evangelical belief system. Scot McKnight and Dan Kimball, who are both widely recognized as leaders of the emergent movement today, are kind of breaking from that whole movement, because they’re saying, ‘Listen, we have a high view of scripture [meaning a literal, inerrant view], we believe in a real traditional interpretation of everything … and that’s where I align myself with, with them two. … Evangelical Christians, look into my eyes, and just know that I believe the same thing you believe … I just live it out in a counter-cultural way … but this doen’t mean I’m flying off to a different theological belief system.
How anyone still takes this guy seriously is beyond me.
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
{ 395 comments… read them below or add one }
« 1 2 3
I guess I have a hard time coming to this and really being able to take either side seriously. You yourself have on your site this: “I don’t believe, for instance, that homosexuality is in and of itself an offense against God.”
Now, I don’t know anything else about you, but all the same, you seem to in this case be using language that is similarly “fuzzy.” I’d expect that your “about” section would be a little clearer about such issues if you really do feel one way or the other.
So how about YOU make a clear and concise and unfuzzy statement, (Which some would argue “Being gay isn’t a sin” is, as you aren’t embracing but rather stating that they are not to be explicitly shunned) or show me where I can see you doing so, and I’d certainly love to take this article from a different light.
I’m in no way claiming to know much of anything about you or your stance, but I see this as an opportunity to offer you a little insight into how people outside of your “circle” might see you. I’m sure that the statement I quoted from your site is an exception and that you generally are more than happy to state your position, but as someone who has not had the time to find out what you’re all about, it’s what I have to go on at the moment.
I won’t speak for John but I suspect he doesn’t care too much about what anyone thinks about him, not just those who are “outside his circle”. What is troublesome about this, Byron, is that you have a huge amount of content in which to make a more informed decision about what John’s belief system is in depth, where he’s explained things (over and over again) with a rather laserlike quality. . Yet it seems like you’re asking him to explain that to you so you don’t have to go do a little digging and find that out for yourself. That – with all due respect – seems like a lazy way of discovering who someone is.
Why should I, as a lesbian, build a bridge with my oppressors? The LGBT community NEEDS support; bigoted white males do not.
Exactly Angela, which is why allies like me need to be more vocal, more obstinant, more focused, more invested in fighting this war until it is over. That’s why this place is so special. It’s combat training with a soft touch.
Am I the only one who has never heard of this guy?
I was just thinking the same thing; who is this guy and who is his audience?
A sheep in wolves clothing some of us have always known him to be…….
In one Youtube video, he says “orientation is not a sin”, that the “behavior is the sin portion” and that’s the “baseline” that he is coming from.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di8LT6W3Xc0
That’s just a roundabout way of saying that it’s OK to be gay as long as you don’t engage in sex with someone of the same sex. At least, that’ much is clear now and we know that Andrew Marin is in the “love the sinner, hate the sin crowd’.
It’s good to hear from you, Michael. Thanks for this link.
Any news from Andrew?
I am sure he will not deign to talk to us common folk. He will reserve his words to a closed and concealed conversation with John, if he even has the balls to do that. He will come up with some other blog post, with no commenting available, to play the martyr and continue more of the same, all while pleading his case that he is “reaching out” and being persecuted for it. *eye roll*
I am not sure why I expected anything more or less from a “christian”.
daemon
« 1 2 3