Chad Holtz now believes in hell. As to homosexuality . . . ?

by John Shore on July 18, 2012 in Christian Spirituality · 299 comments

Chad Holtz

Yesterday Chad Holtz left a comment to a post of mine from May 2011, What Jesus Really Meant by the Story of Lazarus, in which I suggest that the parable is not, as it’s traditionally accepted to be, intended as a lesson about the reality of a literal hell, but rather as a lesson about ourselves. In response Chad wrote:

As someone who lost his pulpit for not believing in hell, I would have loved this rendering. But I think Its [sic] wrong.

I believe the point of the rich man now begging for even a drop of water off the dirty finger of a poor man illustrates how dreadful hell truly is. It is so awful that pretense is gone, and he would now gladly beg for just a drop of water to quench his thirst from the one he ignored in his life.

Lets not forget the plea as well. He wanted his family to change…to know that this hell is real and to repent lest they all join him.

Hell is real. Woe to us who have lost all fear of God.

Some of you may recall Chad as the pastor who in March 2011 made national news when he was dismissed from his job for writing a note on his Facebook page supporting Rob Bell’s then-new book Love Wins, which questioned the notion of hell as a place of eternal damnation for sinners. (The reality behind Chad’s firing was a bit more complicated, of course—but, to paraphrase the saying, the media wants what the media wants.)

Unemployed but heralded as a martyr for the Christian left, Chad turned his attentions to his blog, Dancing on Saturday—where, earlier in the month in which he got fired, he had stirred the ire of his congregation by publishing a piece entitled “What I Lost Losing Hell,” in which he spoke of how no longer believing in the traditional view of hell had freed him to become a more deeply spiritual person. “Love does, indeed, win,” he wrote. (Chad also wrote that in “losing hell” he had lost “a very powerful and useful motivator: Fear. … I lost the ability to use fear as a tool to manipulate others to believe as I did.”)

Buoyed high by the tidal wave of Love Wins, a revamped Dancing proved very popular. But as the months passed and the waters calmed its popularity waned. What seemed to finally drown Dancing was Chad’s efforts to utilize it to launch a new church ministry he attempted to start based upon the sexual addiction he often blogged about suffering.

According to his blog it was said addiction which led to Chad’s wife of eight years, Amy, filing for divorce in July 2011. The couple have five young children, two of whom are siblings from Ethiopia who were ages three and five when the Holtz’s adopted them in early 2008.

In October 2011 Chad declared on his blog that early the following month he would be leaving the world behind in order to spend seven months overcoming his sexual addiction at Kentucky’s Pure Life Ministries, where they practice a brand of Christianity it’s safe to call ultra-conservative.

From PLM’s website:

Our 35 full-time biblical counselors and support staff are fully committed to bringing the hope, healing, and restoration found only in Christ to those who have been touched by the leprosy of sexual sin. …

In fulfilling our call, Pure Life Ministries is founded upon the authority of the Word of God as the supreme and all-sufficient Truth for overcoming sin. We unashamedly preach a message of repentance unto salvation. Everything we do—whether in our counseling programs, our speaking ministry, the distribution of our books and resources—all these things are based on the Word of God, with the goal of leading others to victory over sexual sin through a deeper life in God.

Italics mine.

For a few months before he left for Pure Life, Chad and I emailed back and forth, sharing links to one another’s posts on our respective Facebook pages, and so on. Once he left for rehab I didn’t hear from him again (nor expect to), until his comment yesterday on my Lazarus piece.

Accompanying that comment was an invitation to visit Chad’s new blog, Unchained. (On their website Pure Life Ministries presents slick, drama-drenched testimonial videos called Unchained: The Stories, which includes such titles as It never ever dawned on me that I was on my way to hell; I associated myself as a gay man; All I knew was that I had a secret life of homosexuality; I was angry, so angry; and He finally got up the nerve to tell me he struggled with homosexuality. Each video ends with its subject saying, “My name is [so-and-so], and I’ve been unchained.”) I originally deleted the link within Chad’s comment on my blog because, having looked at Unchained, I thought it and the comment itself fake. Subsequent poking about convinced me it’s not.

Chad’s new blog consists of but one entry. Dated June 1 (byline: “chadholtznew”), it is titled “I repent.” Highlights of that post include:

“I repent of my past denial of hell or that a person could ever be eternally seperated [sic] from a holy God.   I know now that I had no fear of God.  Therefore, I had no knowledge of God (Prov. 1:7).   I was a fool with an MDiv.   I was wrong.”

“Marrow’s Chapel United Methodist Church was right to ask me to leave.  It was God’s mercy.”

“Love doesn’t win.  God wins.  And it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a holy, living God (Heb. 10.31).  I lost sight of this and God, in His mercy, granted me a chance to repent.”

“Like Paul, I count pretty much everything I said and did in the past as dross (Phil. 3:8) compared to the intimacy I now have with Jesus.”

“[Jesus] saved me.  I know today that I am free, redeemed, delivered, unchained. I know what it means to live at the cross and to walk in daily repentance.  I know what it is to fear God and the joy of holiness.  The chains that bound me for decades are gone.  The blood of Jesus has washed me clean!  Hallelujah!”

“God has even seen fit to restore my dead marriage.  He not only saved me, God saved Amy as well.  Days of depression and anxiety are gone and her strength and joy is found in the Lord.  In March she wrote me in only [sic] of her many letters to me:

I used to get so angry at women who said that one day I would look back on all of this and be grateful.   But crazy as it may sound, I am so thankful for our many afflictions, Chad, because through them I have been brought closer to Christ.”

And so on.

Chad has eliminated all online traces possible of his former self—most certainly including his old blog (which is also now apparently infected with malware it’s waiting to download onto your computer should you dare to visit it). I would venture to guess, however, that we will soon enough be hearing from the new Chad. I would be surprised if he hasn’t already signed to write at least one book with a Christian publisher in the evergreen “He was lost to the sin of sexual addiction, but now he’s found—and now he and his long-suffering wife are the happiest Christian married couple ever!” genre.

And now, if I might, on a more personal note:

Chad! Great to hear from you! Sounds like you’re feeling very good about your time at Pure Life. That’s wonderful. I guess you and I don’t share beliefs about hell anymore! But so what? When it comes to what’s behind Door Number Death, even the most religiously inspired must admit that ultimately they, too, are necessarily speculating. The important thing is that you’re now feeling better and back with your family. How beautiful is that? The best of luck to you in whatever preaching or writing opportunities are surely awaiting you now.

Hey, so, one thing I wanted to ask you about, Chad.

Before leaving for Pure Life Ministries you were an unwavering defender of the idea that God blesses same-sex relationships the same as he does straight ones. Your blog post “Homosexuality: God’s Gift to the Church” is typical of your forthright and unabashed work on this matter. So is this, which you wrote not long before leaving for Pure Life:

Scripture has nothing to say about “same sex relationships” as we know them today. Not a word. All 6 times it comes up in the Bible they are unanimously about cultic worship, abuse or rape. None of them have a loving, mutual relationship in sight. … What, exactly, is “sinful” about a loving, committed, same-sex relationship? Can anyone tell me what it is about this that makes it sinful, apart from just saying, “God said so”? In other words, we can no doubt come up with all sorts of reasons why murder, adultery, incest, lying, stealing, lust, etc are “sinful” which don’t rely solely on “God said so.” So what is it about a same sex loving relationship that is “sinful”?

I am so glad that you and your wife are happy again, Chad. I just hope, with all of my heart, that part of your new belief in hell is not the conviction that destined to go there are so many of the people whom you once so passionately argued had a rightful place in heaven.

 

UPDATE: About five hours after I published this post Chad and his wife Amy launched a new blog. Called Desire Mercy, it’s about how God wants them to share the story of their struggle for the benefit of others.

FOLLOW-UP: The Bible and sex addiction?


 

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{ 299 comments… read them below or add one }

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Al Newberry September 24, 2012 at 12:33 pm

It sounds to me like this Chad Holtz guy is just so extremely impressionable that he cannot think for himself. He reads Rob Bell’s book and so doesn’t believe in hell, then he goes off to an ultra-conservative addiction boot camp and suddenly believes in hell again.

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Brian July 30, 2012 at 9:47 am

The idea of HELL like the idea of FAITH seems to be a topic that many ministers and whole churches claim to know a great deal about. Really?

In the Fall of 1993, every one of my personal beliefs was stripped away. I experienced it as a total loss of everything I ever valued. I wandered about the University Campus where I was working and going to school. After nearly a month of constant personal agony, Jesus spoke His name in my heart where I was trying to find relief in the break room (Sort of like your store room John). Immediately all doubt and fear vanished from my heart. In the years following, I have come to realize that my FAITH is actually a relationship I live out on a daily (one day at a time) basis. I have acquired more beliefs from that relationship – more like insights.

One of them centers on the whole notion of HELL.

Because I see my faith as the essence of my relationship to Jesus, I also have come to see HELL as a consequence of my SIN. I now define SIN as my turning away from that relationship, leaving me “WITHOUT” Jesus’ presence in my soul. The acts I used to think of as my sins, are the symptoms of my SIN. They warn me that I need to take some time alone and again and pray. Center myself and reaquire my spiritual compass.

It seems most christians think of Hell as being without God. And I would agree with that as a qualifier of the state of my relationship with God. I would not agree, however, that “sinners” are the ones who wind up there more than believers.

An individual who has made the effort to conquer their “sins” may well take pride in their accomplishment and take on a new “self-righteous” attitude toward people who cannot seem to stop sinning no matter how hard they try. I think these are the people we witness today who condemn gays, fornicators, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. But we know what Jesus said about passing judgment. For the people who pat themselves on the back for being so disciplined and holy, where is God? Why do they need Him in their efforts to be “better?”

I judge no one in this. I just cannot help, but wonder if the (so called) moral outrage by christian evangelicals toward “sinners” is not based on their own “righteousness?”

A sinner can make no claim to holiness or pureness before God. And therein is the hope of every sinners final salvation (healing). We sinners know we can do nothing on our own or by our own efforts. We must throw ourselves on God’s Mercy. He knows this.

That is why, in the end, I see Heaven and Hell as being two ways the soul relates to God. Jesus stated, “I am the Alpha and the Omega.” Everything and everyone began in Him and will, in due time, return to Him. I think of what lies beyond the veil as being ONE reality only. Those who know they do not deserve what God has to offer by their own failed efforts will find their new reality with God as an eternal (whatever the H*** that means) healing and bliss. Those who tried to do it all on their own and have become so self-reliant that they found it too easy to pass judgement on homosexuals and others (the least of His brothers) have judged the Spirit of God that lifted all sinners up and carried us to the “bossom of Abraham.” These folks may discover that they do not like the God of salve-ation, because it means they can no longer do it on their own!

Just a thought.

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Gordon July 30, 2012 at 11:49 am

Um…excuse me, but I don’t like being lumped in with “the least of His brothers” and all this talk of sin and sinners makes my skin crawl. Also, I’m not sure I understand your point when you write above about “gays, fornicators, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc.” This reminds of when Trent Lott was the Majority Leader in the United States Senate and proclaimed that gay people were no different than alcoholics, sex addicts and kleptomaniacs!

Yeah, I know what Jesus said about judgment. I also know what he said about gay people and homosexuality. NOTHING.

Again, maybe I’m missing your point but I’m feeling insulted. Being gay is not a sin.

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Brian July 30, 2012 at 12:51 pm

Gordon – that is my point. Being gay is not a sin. I’m gay, even though I came out very late in life and only after I struggled with it in the context of what I formally thought of as being my faith. The emphasis on the different kinds of sinners is what I always heard from the Bible thumpers. Sorry if you thought I was lumping you in with anyone, I wasn’t. I was sharing a ver difficult path I followed to finally accept my orientation and preserve my relationship with jesus at the same time. Completely separate from being gay, I know I am a sinner. And I believe Jesus has no problem with that as it helps me to realize how much I need his love to heal my soul.

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Melanie Stanley-Soulen via Facebook July 29, 2012 at 8:53 am

Andrew, you’re making some snappy judgments yourself – assuming that some of the folks who’ve responded don’t know Chad.

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kimj July 23, 2012 at 7:11 pm

Chad is someone I consider a friend. While I’m happy his marriage is restored, I am deeply grieved by his newly found “conversion.” He does sound brainwashed. I am so sad.

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kimj July 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm

I’ve tried to comment on two of Chad’s new blog posts now and both were deleted. Both were asking honest questions of where he stood now on the lgbt issue as many of us have supported him. Both deleted.

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Melody July 24, 2012 at 6:25 pm

Wow. Can’t even answer an honest question, huh? Very sad indeed. And I’m sorry that someone whom you consider a friend is being so unfriendly to you. That is truly terrible.

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Diana A. July 24, 2012 at 7:04 pm

Yeah, I’m not surprised. Sad, but not surprised. I imagine this “healing” of his is very fragile and doesn’t bear much challenge. I’m truly worried about what will happen when the first strong wind comes along and blows the whole house of cards down.

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mike moore July 25, 2012 at 5:42 am

Via an email exchange with Chad, I learned he is both disingenuous and unwilling to post any comments which challenge or do not generally gush with approval.

To quote Chad: “DesireMercy is going to be primarily my wife’s blog where she can, Lord willing, bring a word of encouragement and hope to hurting wives.”

However, when one reads the blog, it is, thus far, primarily Chad’s.

The public testimonies, 2 of 3 posts, the single big happy photo with Chad and his kids but no wife, and the authors (Chad and his wife, Chad gets top billing) all make it pretty clear that what he calls “primarily my wife’s blog” is really “The Chad Show.”

He is a sad and troubled guy, drunk on Pure Life’s Kool-Aid.

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Ed July 25, 2012 at 9:23 pm

Sounds like he finally got it right

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Gordon July 25, 2012 at 6:38 am

I think his deleting your comments are answers in and of themselves.

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kimj July 25, 2012 at 7:53 am

I agree. He is not the Chad I knew. Just blows me away. I even left a third personal message because I knew he wouldn’t post it. Nada.

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John Shore July 25, 2012 at 12:00 pm

I determined before posting this piece that when Chad didn’t answer the gay question (as I assumed he would not), I wouldn’t press him on it/ask him again. But of course it is discouraging to learn the degree to which he wants to simply rebuff the question itself. I suppose that eliminates whatever sliver of hope that might have remained.

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kimj July 25, 2012 at 4:57 pm

Thanks you guys for the imput. I realize I have to let it go. There is grief – it feels like a death occurred. So ill grieve and say goodbye to my friend.

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John Shore July 25, 2012 at 5:02 pm

Me, too.

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Russell Mark July 26, 2012 at 1:49 pm

John – you know better than most that in Christ there is ALWAYS hope. Chad has experienced real soul freedom, but now, even as he sought help for his addiction, he’s been placed into this horribly disingenuous, intellectual and spiritual bondage. SO, we do what we must do and that is pray for him and his wife. And Christ will do what Christ does best – love and reconcile. This story is long from being over, it’s just a new chapter. His is also classic addictive behavior – you find the panacea to all your problems – throw youself at it and avoid having to do the hard work of rooting out the cause of the addiction. Programs like Pure Life fail because they push until they get the answer they want, which is quite often not the real solution. Chad is just beginning his journey, so the question for us is will we stick with him or write him off?

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John Shore July 26, 2012 at 1:54 pm

Yes, all as you (very well) say. I don’t have any sense of “sticking with him” or “writing him off” either way. He’s doing his thing. I’m not going to screw with him or anything like that, certainly. If he starts writing or speaking against gay people, I’ll take exception to that. But otherwise, what he does is none of my concern. If he’s happy, I’m glad he’s happy. If he’s not, and asks for my help in any way, of course I’ll be there for him. Same ol same ol.

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Russell Mark July 26, 2012 at 2:01 pm

Being the nexus of so many life stories, you carry a larger burden, brother, than many of us. We admire you for that. So, do keep us posted, so we can help carry the burden when we can. Shalom

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Russell Mark July 26, 2012 at 1:57 pm

And let me add, Chad and his wife are certainly not alone on this journey, just as none of us are alone in ours. Christ is not done with Chad…or me either, for that matter.

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Gordon July 26, 2012 at 2:56 pm

I still have a sliver of hope. Maybe I’m naive, but it’s impossible for me to believe that a Christian who knows and understands that God loves and celebrates the sexuality of gay people could somehow become convinced that he/she was wrong. This guy wrote about his support of our full acceptance in the Christian faith and its churches. And he was right. He was in truth. This organization he joined to deal with his inner demons may have tried to isolate some of his truths and scour them out, but it won’t last. Truth is truth. He’s hanging on tight right now because what he has been through has restored his wife and children to him and I totally understand that. He just needs to be “clean and sober” for a while. He’ll grow and get more confident in himself and the truths that are there, because truth can NEVER be scoured away. His inner truths will begin to surface and eventually he’ll find his footing and his balance again.

Again, maybe I’m naive…but that is my hope. So, join with me in hope and believe with me. I think there’s lots of power in that.

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kimj July 26, 2012 at 5:04 pm

I truly hope you are right Gordon. I am backing away for now. Sometimes emotionally it’s healthier to let things go.

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Katherine Gundlach via Facebook July 21, 2012 at 11:33 am

by definition, any religion could be considered a cult. I personally believe in a relationship to God, not any religion.

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Katherine Gundlach via Facebook July 21, 2012 at 11:32 am

and I would beg to differ on the previously given definition of ‘cult’ (the whole ‘small’ thing):
cult
[kuhlt] Show IPA
noun
1.
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.
the object of such devotion.
4.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

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Gordon July 20, 2012 at 4:30 pm

Mr. Holtz my be lurking, but I doubt he will be posting anything here or answering any questions. I just read his “Brainwashed” post on his new Blog. He feels quite strongly that it was a mistake for him to read John Shore’s Blog and a REALLY big mistake to comment on it.

I really am fascinated by this guy for some reason. He’s the only person I have ever encountered who actually has transitioned from a progressive to a fundamentalist interpretation of Christianity. For me it was just the opposite as it has been for most Christians I know. But, we have to keep in mind that this man and his wife were traumatized by very serious marital issues. They seem to be clinging to this newfound faith (they write as though up until very recently, they weren’t even really Christian…and Chad was a student pastor of a church!) in order to save their marriage.

I hope it works. I hope he never cheats on her again and I hope she learns to trust him. That’s a very tall order, however, but it is still my hope. In the meantime I share my friend Mike Moore’s sadness at this “conversion” experience that Chad seems to have had. We now seem to have another outspoken voice out there proclaiming the right-wing fundy nonsense about fear and hell and all the judgment and hate that usually comes with it.

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Melody July 20, 2012 at 5:32 pm

That’s often the case with people in situations similar to his. Someone really screws up her life, and in order to get some structure, she joins a fundamentalist community. She thinks she belongs and that the rules are for her own good. Then, five years down the road, she realizes she exchanged one extreme for another. I believe this is what’s going on with Chad; he just doesn’t want to see it because things are so much better in his married life (supposedly). I pray he finds the middle ground.

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Diana A. July 21, 2012 at 11:57 am

I pray they both find the middle ground. I feel as sorry for Amy as I do for Chad.

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Melody July 21, 2012 at 1:27 pm

Agreed. It’s a sad situation for all involved.

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John (not McCain) July 23, 2012 at 10:15 am

“I hope he never cheats on her again and I hope she learns to trust him. ”

I wonder if she’ll ever stop wondering exactly who he’s thinking about when he’s making his moves on her. The only question about him cheating on her is will he get caught in an airport bathroom or a bar.

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John Gragson via Facebook July 20, 2012 at 4:10 pm

Angela: How can the Bible be the “living” word of God when its contents were decided by a council of bishops 1687 years ago? Did God stop talking to us then? Don’t get me wrong, I do read the Bible and study it for meaning and it is my primary source for authority. But the approach you seem to espouse is idolatry, putting the Bible in place of God. The Bible is the product of human beings trying to find God, but it is not God. John 1:1 might be my favorite verse in the Bible, but the term “λόγος” does not refer to the Scripture, but to something much more fundamental.

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Shannon Skarda July 22, 2012 at 4:54 am

Wow. I love this. I struggle with family members who are fundamentalists. I have such a hard time expressing why I don’t take the Bible literally. You have perfectly put my thoughts and beliefs into comprehensible terms. Thank you

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Wayne Johnson via Facebook July 20, 2012 at 11:07 am

Hope you’re having a great day Ms. Barrett. I’m thinking about the juxtaposition of two things you wrote:

1) “For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.” and
2) “Christianity is far from small! The Holy Bible has been around a while… you heard of it?”

The vast majority of so-called Christians aren’t following the example of Jesus at all. “Small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it”.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-C9ugUUqRWYY/T-DTbrwypqI/AAAAAAAABAU/ky2UgD-Vw9w/s1600-h/579911_426626447370601_615950686_n3.jpg

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John (not McCain) July 20, 2012 at 8:49 am

I’ll believe in hell when I wake up in an afterlife surrounded by people like Chad.

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Diana A. July 20, 2012 at 2:52 pm

Chad’s a dear sweet man. I don’t like what Pure Life Ministry has done to him (or to his wife, for that matter–I read her testimony too, and it’s as sad as Chad’s is) but the original Chad is a dear sweet man. I hope one day the real Chad Holtz comes back.

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Melody July 20, 2012 at 3:48 pm

I agree. I think John’s comment here is highly insensitive.

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Gordon July 20, 2012 at 3:55 pm

You are surrounded by people like Chad. We all are. It’s called the United States House of Representatives.

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Stephanie July 20, 2012 at 6:43 am

Hi Chad: I didn’t read each and every comment, but the ones that I did read seemed to be expressions of compassion and concern for you, not judgments of you. So sorry that you perceived it that way.
Best wishes to you in Christ,
Stephanie

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Roger Wolsey July 20, 2012 at 12:25 am

Reminded of the proverb about the butterfly that flaps its wings in one part of the world affecting a hurricane in another.

Continued prayers for you and your family Chad.

Roger

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John Shore July 19, 2012 at 11:41 pm

duh. thanks, don.

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Janice Dodd via Facebook July 19, 2012 at 7:43 pm

I am sorry to say your article was rather hard to follow. I didn’t really understand what you were trying to say for sure. I don’t know if you were an atiest, and then decided to follow the Bible. Or if you were gay, and got cured. What..I just didn’t really get the true reason you were saying that others didn’t believe you.. I am going to withhold my decision on this.

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Roger July 19, 2012 at 7:12 pm

Chad.
I love you brother. We might come to rest in different theological positions; but I praise God for your restored family.

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Jen Henley July 19, 2012 at 5:54 pm

I choose to believe about hell what C.S. Lewis wrote about it:
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened.” -The Great Divorce

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Nicole July 20, 2012 at 9:06 am

One of my favorite books ever. It’s got the best concept of a chosen afterlife apart from God that I’ve ever seen. And the continual chance to choose Him is always there.

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Christine July 23, 2012 at 2:47 pm

That quote is sickening. It’s everything (ok, not *everything*) wrong with the idea of hell.

WHO is out the *choosing* an eternity or suffering and torment? Huh? I mean, whose out there going “Pain? Suffering? I’ll have me a big forever portion of that. Sign me up, God?” No one. Well… not 99.9999999…% of people, so mathematically, practially no one.

No, quotes like that say one of two things: 1. you CHOSE to do evil, so, essentially, you chose hell. (um, who hasn’t done evil, exactly? he who is without sin… – and in case you want to clarify “unrepentent sin”, I’d be careful thinking you’ve got it all figured out on what the right thing is to do all the time). Or, 2. you CHOSE to reject God, so you esssentially chose hell, despite all the well-meaning truth-seekers who do not ascribe to a god or a particular version of God (and what a great job we’re all doing representing that God, too, right…).

That quote condones eternal torture and puts the burden on the victims. Victims of what, you ask? Life. If you haven’t noticed, it’s not exactly always a walk in the park down here. When decent, well-meaning people who make mistakes get screwed for eternity, we have a serious problem with our concept of justice.

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Diana A. July 24, 2012 at 7:01 pm

That’s the problem with quotes out of context. Even the best quotes can be misconstrued when taken out of context.

That said, have you had the chance to read “The Great Divorce”? The book itself is not simplistic in its theology. This is not to say that I agree with all of it–I find C.S. Lewis to be a bit conservative for my taste–but I would say that his theology is a bit more complex than what might be drawn from that quote of his.

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Eliot Parulidae via Facebook July 19, 2012 at 5:14 pm

My mother’s friend is a very sad person underneath. I would cringe to see a blog go after her, even if it was just to tell her that she needed help. The political is personal.

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Eliot Parulidae via Facebook July 19, 2012 at 5:12 pm

My mom has this childhood friend who held “prayer meetings” to persuade the company she worked for not to provide domestic partner benefits. She put herself out there, all right. But I would not challenge her because I knew her history.

Her father murdered her mother when she was a child. After CPS picked her up, her grandmother claimed her despite openly disliking her. Deep in her loneliness, she decided to avoid future catastrophes by becoming the perfect girl. The “perfect woman” she became cleans for eight hours a day, hoping to keep her husband around. She starves herself and makes fun of fat people. She joined an ultra-conservative church because it was the thing to do, and she held those anti-gay protest meetings because she craves their approval.

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Wayne Johnson via Facebook July 19, 2012 at 5:00 pm

Angela, claiming that you speak for God is using God’s name in vain. That’s Sin #1. Got it?

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Don Rappe July 19, 2012 at 10:48 pm

In my denomination it was #2, but I guess if we can make them add up to 10, everything is OK.

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Elizabeth August 8, 2012 at 8:41 pm

*thumbs up*

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Beth Adams via Facebook July 19, 2012 at 4:57 pm

To be fair, Chad put himself out there in the first place. I’ve done some of that myself, although on a much smaller scale, and when I’ve been called out/psycho-analyzed by my friends, it’s fair play. Don’t hold yourself out there for comment if you can’t deal with the fallout.

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Wayne Johnson via Facebook July 19, 2012 at 4:54 pm

Sorry, but if a friend of mine ate lunch at Chik-Fil-A I would be ticked off and I would tell him so. This organization is much more virulently anti-gay than Chik-Fil-A.

But if Chik-Fil-A were the only place where he could get food then I guess I’d be a jerk to give him a hard time about it. So that’s where I’m stuck right now.

None of my business, except that that business makes its money by calling for harm to me and my friends.

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Eliot Parulidae via Facebook July 19, 2012 at 4:05 pm

This is really weird. I like John’s blog, but sending an e-squad to psychoanalyze a man with little influence (apologies to Chad – I don’t have much influence either) and lots of personal stuff to work through strikes me as, well, mean and creepy and 4-Channish. Let’s pick on Pat Robertson instead.

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Elizabeth July 19, 2012 at 5:07 pm

Ha ha ha! No, really. We shouldn’t pick on Pat Robertson either. He has his own set of issues which he’s displayed clearly for all to see.

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John Shore July 19, 2012 at 6:01 pm

Yeah, cuz that’s what I did.

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Allie July 19, 2012 at 6:06 pm

Eliot, you can’t see it here, but John has been very protective of Chad. I made a post which has since disappeared, I assume because it was too harsh. John didn’t just unleash the dogs and walk away, he monitors this site and the comments.

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John Shore July 19, 2012 at 6:26 pm

Thanks, A. But, no, I didn’t delete what I did of yours because it was too harsh. I deleted it because I DID delete the comment to which yours was a response–which left your response making no sense. And it was short (but sweet!), so I didn’t think you’d mind.

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p. July 19, 2012 at 1:53 pm

I’ve been thinking about this sentence lately:

“We’re all capable of becoming fundamentalists because we get addicted to other people’s wrongness.” Pema Chodron

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