A week or so ago Ting Lin, whom I wrote about in A Taiwanese Christian Lesbian Everyone Should Know, sat down to write a letter to her father. When finished she wasn’t sure what to do with the letter. Rather than mail it to her father she decided to publish it on her blog, which she knows her father reads.
Ting Lin lives with both of her parents, staunchly conservative Christian leaders who do not accept her homosexuality. She deeply loves her parents, and they her. Her blog is one of the main ways in which Ting Lin endeavors to communicate to her mother and father (as well as to her readers throughout Taiwan and into China) the truth that gay people are just people.
Ting Lin sent me the final paragraphs of her letter to her father. Below are those paragraphs translated into English. Thanks to Ting Lin for allowing me to share them with you.
When you stand with other Christians, Father, and with them use the timeworn quiltwork of reasons to oppose gay people, please look at me. Look into your daughter’s eyes, and accuse me of being a pervert.
Accuse me of incest, polygamy, pedophilia.
Accuse me of bestiality.
When you stand with those churches that preach loving the sinner but hating the sin and accuse gay people of sinfulness, please look at me. Look into your daughter’s eyes, and tell me how many such “sinners” you personally have known and loved. Tell me how many of those gay people beloved by you ever managed to successfully separate themselves from the core of that within them which you and the church call sinful. Tell me, please, how many, ceaselessly striving to remove from themselves the essence of their own identity, collapsed from that terrible effort. Tell me how many died because of the continuing hatred and denial of something natural to them that was impossible for them to change.
When you stand with those who call themselves the “Holy Church” denying acceptance of those “unholy homosexuals,” please look at me. Look into your daughter’s eyes, and tell me that I am not holy. Tell me that the Holy Spirit is not present within the group worships that I lead. Tell me that my ministry reveals to you no sign of the Holy Spirit’s work. Tell me, Father, that in my life does not appear heavenly blessings. Tell me that I do not know God at all.
When you are sure that gay people simply do not understand their sexual orientation, when you are filled with the conviction that “being gay” is only an excuse to abandon oneself to shamefulness and despair, open your eyes, please. Look at me.
Look behind us. See the blood in the footprints of our long walk together.
That blood was caused by thorns planted by you.
You deny us.
You refuse us.
You do not see us.
Every day, Dad, there must be gay people around you. But the church does not accept them. And you don’t even see them.
Please, Father, behold us.
Behold me.
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And this is why missionaries are just pure evil. They go to other countries with well-established traditions and beliefs and then impose their foreign religion on them. That isn’t to say that Buddhism or other Asian religions are necessarily all rainbows and bunnies when it comes to gay people, but they certainly beat Christian fundamentalism. It’s incredibly sad how to see how these people have been taught to hate from others.
[dickweed comment deleted.]
Deception is what you’re guilty of, constantly lying about who you are, evading a ban in order to come back again and post. It’s so creepy. I think you’re so troubled and pathetic. It’s sad. This woman has more spiritual maturity in her little finger than you do in your entire being. you’re a miserable, angry mess. And you know what’s amazing? She’d love you. So I’m going to follow her example and just love you too.
I don’t love him/her. I’m a very bad Christian.
[fundy troll comment deleted]
Don’t be ridiculous, there are a million non-liberals here who engage. You’ve been banned repeatedly and you continue to evade the ban by creating false names while having the audacity to accuse someone *else* of bad morals. It’s so sad – you’re so pathetic, it kind of makes me wonder if you have any kind of life outside of the computer at all. That’s generally the case when people keep coming back to sites where they’ve been banned and continue to obsessively post. I sense that you’ve got some real problems. I hope you get some help for them or find some peace inside of you and after that, some understanding of yourself and the real reasons why you were banned.
[dickweed comment deleted.]
Oh, where is a falling anvil when you need one?
Yeah, well, if the Lord could forgive David fornicating with Bathsheba and then killing her husband so he could get down with her on a permanent basis, I think He’ll forgive two people loving one another and then amicably parting. Or marrying. Whichever comes first.
Meanwhile, ALSO in Taiwan…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/09/first-gay-buddhist-wedding_n_1659264.html?utm_hp_ref=buddhism
Fang-Yi,
Your words are so eloquent and powerful. They need to be shared with the world and read by everyone. This was so moving. God bless you and thank you for being willing to share your ongoing story with us.
And John, thank you for your part in this.
Grace,
Lee
Thank you all for supporting me. Your prayer, caring and support are so very important to me. It’s the action of love. Thank you for loving me for who I really am. I definitely will say how grateful I am to EACH of you, someday.
Honestly, I would like to know the outcome as well. So far I can only tell you, after the post of ‘A Taiwanese Christian Lesbian Everyone Should Know’ and this open letter, unfortunately nothing changes. My parents evade this very issue, and they reckon I am being cynical to criticize church. Though they do treat me very well in all other aspects, I am too exhausted to say anything about my sexuality to them face to face.
I would love to share with you the good news when my parents accept me unconditionally. Before that, I will keep writing.
Fang-yi, I don’t know you or your parents, nor your culture. I know that the advice that was given to me, over 20 years ago, and that I pass on to people who come out today, is to give the people they love at least a year before you decide that they aren’t going to come around.
I had decades of struggling with my own orientation and my own faith, and I had the benefit of experiencing both, so that I knew what was and what wasn’t true about my own experience, and I had personal, intimate, and unquestionable experience that I could use to evaluate the claims that anti-gay society and religion made about me.
My parents, friends, and family didn’t have that. If they didn’t have other gay friends, all they had to go on was what society taught them, and for the most part, they never had any reason to question what they were told – until I told them that in my case, it was wrong.
I’ve found it natural for there to need to be a time during which everyone pretends that nothing has changed and that you can still have something like the old relationship. That’s natural, but it can’t last. In six months or so, you’ll need to start pushing – insisting that the same realities of your life that everyone else is free to talk about are open for discussion with you and with them. And after about a year or so, you need to start making doing so a condition for being part of your life.
For now, let them know and not want to talk about it, but don’t let that become the permanent situation. Most of the time, people really do come around.
I agree with Lymis, it takes time. It took our family a couple years to go through the emotional and spiritual transformation that took us from the fundamentalist/evangelical “understanding” of our family member to being able to read the Bible differently and *truly* understand that being LGBT is not a choice or a lifestyle. When you’ve had 40 or 60 years of understanding things one way, it takes time to change. However, the things that spoke powerfully to us were “by their fruits you shall know them” – the change in our family member was positive, joyful and full of grace. Also, we were determined to put love first, which led us to compassion for her, and then understanding. We talked a lot, read a lot, cried a lot. Some of us are more “there” than others. Your parents love you, so there is hope! In the meantime, know that your friends here are praying for you, loving you, and telling you you are beautiful just as you are!
How is that you put things into words even better than me, Lymis? :p
I had a similar experience with my identities. My parents have been “forced” to accept that I am bisexual, but with the transsexualism we are still in the “speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil” phase.
Pushing inevitably has to happen, but taking time to just get comfortable with yourself is necessary too. This is your identity, not anyone else’s. Many of us find second families to support us where our birth families just can’t or won’t fill the gap. I hope you can find something like that to turn to.
You are so awesome, Fang-yi! Truly a person of strong character and huge heart
.
Thank you for respond and kind advice.
I didn’t mention not means there’s no conflict with my parents face to face in the past. It’s another story. Besides, it’s irrelevant with ‘culture.’ I supposed faraway you didn’t suffering cultural gap while reading my words.
I have spent 17 years trying to be accepted by my parents, and I don’t think I will give up. When I was younger, I was more harsh and aggressive. Today I see myself tougher than before, but much softer at the same time. No one has the same experience, and no rule is suitable for every situation. But Matt, I can’t agree with you more about the second family. I do have a firm support system, and I deeply cherish everyone here to encourage me and pray for me.
Again, sincerely thank you all.
Lymis….you nailed it! I am presently in that “limbo” space where I am trying to come to terms with who I have always been…and wanting those I love to get there as well…it ain’t gonna happen like that, and I really needed to hear what you wrote. When I started to come out as bisexual, my mistake was in thinking that those who knew and loved me would look at LGBT issues differently, because they knew and loved me….not so much….Thank you for reminding me that just because I’VE always known exactly how God created me, I’ve been on this earth for 57 years, and everyone else is just now discovering what I’ve always known….giving them time is something I can do, maybe, to help them adjust to this “revelation”. I pray that I can be as gracious and patient as Fang-yi! FY, you are a shining example of grace and dignity!
The second part didn’t post… I am blessed to have an AMAZING support system in a few good friends and family members who DO look at this differently because “Those People” have a face now, and one they love. I pray that you will visit here often, FY, we are your family, too!
Matt, I’m sorry transsexualism is still speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. Like so many issues in Teh Gay Wars, I don’t see why being born in the “right” body is better than being born in the “wrong” body.
Matt, I so appreciate your comments here, and to hear your personal experiences. It opens my eyes to understand your perspective. I don’t get why just being your true self has to be made such a challenge, and I wish I had a magic wand that could fix it.
I wouldn’t want to change you– I want to change our hearts to see you exactly as you see yourself, as a child of God.
I would personally like to know the outcome of this.
For so long the church’s response to the gay community has been hate-filled. But that is starting to change. I think ministries like Ricky Chellet’s ministry to gays and their families and friends is really accomplishing change in this area. By getting Christians to see that the “sin” of homosexuality is no worse than their “sin” of lying, stealing, adultery (ooh, those are big ones, what about the little ones), mistreating a friend, not being patient with our children, having trouble forgiving a spouse, etc… has helped so many of us to love those we thought we could reject before. I’m praying for genuine love from my heart for all people. I believe that’s what God wants from us and I’m asking for His help to do this.
Homosexuality isn’t a behaviour, therefore, it isn’t in any way comparable to lying, impatience, or other unloving acts on your list. If heterosexuality isn’t a sin, in and of itself, neither is homosexuality.
Dana, what people need to understand is that the “sin” of homosexuality is no worse than the “sin” of being left-handed, being black, being red-headed, or being blue-eyed.
Your approach is far, far better than outright condemnation, but it still ends up being “I will love you as long as you agree to feel guilty for something about yourself that you had no control over being.”
Sin doesn’t lie in who people are, when there is sin, it is because of how and why people do what they do.
And beyond the fact that homosexuality is not an act (right on, Lyn)…
I have serious doubts that teaching people that same-gender sexual acts – committed with love, commitment, fidelity, kindness, gentleness, patience, and joy (hmm, some of that list sounds familiar…) – are *no worse* than acts committed with hate, infidelity, rudeness, harshness, impatience, misery and strife.
When the best parts of me (that loving relationship with my family) are only *no worse* than the worst parts of every straight person, than they *will* see me as sub-human and all our “sins” will never be treated alike. Let’s expose that line of reasoning of what it is, shall we? Dehumanizing.
If you actually manage to love your gay neighbors you will realize that God made them gay and that you don’t want to consider their natural orientation a “sin” anymore. (happened to me!)
Happened to me, too!
Perhaps I should express that I believe we are all sinners. Therefore, I confer no more guilt on the homosexual than on any other sinner. We are all saved by the grace of God.
But do you believe that it is a sin to be romantically and/or sexually attracted to a member of one’s own gender? Do you believe it is wrong to act on such attractions? This is the question.
Dana: http://johnshore.com/2010/10/01/how-is-being-gay-like-gluing-wings-on-a-pig/
The point people are making you is that *being* gay is not simply a set of sexual behaviors that one “abstains” from. *Being* gay is woven into one’s being, it is irreversable, like being blue-eyed or born with brown hair. As a result, there is no behavior from which gay men and women can repent from and be saved.
That’s the point people are making to you and you need to listen. Do it quickly, we’re running out of time. Take care.
Dana, I believe you. But your phrasing is the problem.
If you were to say that homosexuals are no more or less sinful than heterosexuals, we’d agree and cheer you on.
But when you say that homosexuality is no more or less sinful than adultery or being impatient, you aren’t seeing us as people at all. You are seeing us in terms of an activity, and declaring us, not to be sinners, but to be sins.
Being gay is not a sin to be weighed against other sins. It is being a type of human being, to be weighed against other human beings.
I suspect that you believe left-handed people are no more sinful than right-handed people, but that you wouldn’t say that since we are all sinners, the sin of left-handedness is no worse than the sin of adultery.
See what we mean?
But you *are* implying that gay people are disordered in a way that straight people are not. To you, our *entire sexualities* (an important compoenent of *who we are*), and *not* just *certain expression* of that sexuality is sin. Moreover, you are saying that gay people are *unable to tell right from wrong* in a way that straight people can – because I am fulfilled, benefitted, bettered, happier, and have an improved life because of something sinful. Where straight people grow out of goodness, you are supposing that gay people grow from sin. Even if we are all sinners, that makes gay people very different from straight.
Guys: This is from the website of Ricky Chellet’s “ministry,” Living Hope, whose mission is to “to proclaim God’s truth as we journey with those seeking sexual and relational wholeness through a more intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.”:
So, that’s … where Dana’s coming from. So. You know.
Thanks so much John for posting Ricky’s ministry. They are truly amazing people that accept everyone regardless of their sexual orientation. They also don’t “preach” that homosexuals are going to hell, which as you know, has been a long taught theology (using the term loosely). They also don’t try to change people. They exhibit the fruit of the spirit that Paul spoke of in Galatians. And they’ve been a tremendous blessing to me.
Do they believe that being gay is sinful?
Follow the link. Yup, they do. God calls homosexuals to “leave” homosexuality and thereby come out of chaos into wholeness.
Barf.
Guess Dana left?
I’m still here…I have no desire to enter into arguments. Obviously, my views are different from most of those that post here. I prefer to make the occasional comment and remain on the positive side of things from here on. Seeking validation from me or asking my point of view on this subject will not help anyone here, or me for that matter. Wish all of you the best on your path of seeking Christ, truth and love. Blessings!
It might be worth your while to consider, friend Dana, what everyone here is trying to tell you: Ricky Chellet, and all those who run such “love the sinner, hate the sin”-type ministries, are doing very much more harm than they are good. No one can pray away the gay–and Chellet is perfectly aware of that. He is using the fear of God to sell what he knows is a lie. That makes him an immoral charlatan; he is the very antithesis of everything for which Christ stood and died. There’s no excuse for you not to know that.
I truly do appreciate your comments John and I can only ask for your prayers as I continue my journey in Christ. I can only tell you that where I’ve come from is vastly different than where I am now and that Living Hope has had a tremendous influence in that journey. It has not taught me to love the sinner, hate the sin so much as it has changed my heart about loving and accepting gay people. This has been a very personal journey for me and as everyone so quickly points out here, “these are real people’s lives!”, well, that has truly been the case with me and my family. I am not at liberty to share any of the details at this time, but I will continue to read your articles. I have no stake in Ricky Chellet’s ministry and I have no reason to defend him, but I can truly say there is no fear in any of the teachings that I’ve heard. The only thing I’ve heard has opened my eyes and heart to love and acceptance. Thank you again for the understanding. I appreciate all the people here who understand that they will not win the straight folks to their side with hatred, self-righteousness and condescension. Thanks so much!
Hi Dana. It sounds like you’re on the right path. My understanding of both LGBT and Christianity changed drastically from reading John’s blog. It can be a lot to process.
My two cents? Any time someone says, “I love you but…” they are operating from fear and judgment. “Loving the sinner but hating the sin” is a rhetorical device used to make you think they accept you when they don’t. God’s love is unconditional.
What I meant by “he is using the fear of God to sell what he knows is a lie,” is that his business depends on Christian gay people fearing that they are a travesty of nature that needs correcting: they are deeply afraid of God, and so desperate to get “right” with him. Chellet literally banks on such people being terrified of who God made them to be. With his left hand he (however subtly) tortures those poor souls with the Bible they love, and with his right offers them a faux-balm for that torture. And with both feet he then trots off to the bank.
Dana: John included that in part because he knew how sickening most of us would find it – not because it’s a good witness.
Just for starters, it equates being gay with “confusions and chaos”. Let the hateful stereotyping begin. There’s a reason mosts of us wouldn’t touch a ministry like that with a hundred-foot pole. They are pushing people away from the church and doing dishonor to the inclusive message of Jesus and the gospel.
Dana: Imagine I am part of a big lobby group that has succeeded in making it illegal for infertile people to adopt children. Adoption is still legal, but only by people who pass tests indicated that they could reproduce. The reason I am part of this movement is because I believe that “unnatural” parenting is sin. To support this, I cite numerous biblical passages where God provides miracles to those who are infertile that want to have children – firmly demonstrating that God views “natural” parenting as the ideal. I also say that, even with numerous mentions of ophans in the bible, there is not one mention of adoption. For those who are infertile, I am certain that they have two options: that they can pary to God to make them fertile, or they can accept their infertility as a call from God to be childless. I’m not convinced that people are ever born infertile; since infertility is not generally discovered until adulthood, any number of things could cause it: sexual abuse and the body reacting to having unnatural parents being the principle likely causes. I quietly believe, therefore, that infertile people are not really suitable parents. Studies come out to show that infertility is often genetic and not prayed away, and that infertile people who adopt makes just as good parents and fertile ones. But even if I were to believe this (though I found I was able to fund studies that showed otherwise), it still wouldn’t change my underlying view of what God wants based on the bible.
Out of my obvious deep compassion for infertile people, I do not insist they are going to hell, but instead start a ministry for infertile people in order to help them resist the urge to adopt children, or to give them the strength to put up for adoption the children they already have. I am also responsible for shifting public opinion toward disaproval for “unnatural” parenting generally. I feel my approach is loving and I feel I deserve credit for resisting the urge to simply condemn all infertile people or at least the infertile people with children. My messages “of love” do reach some who seek out mt ministry – and they are expected to be fully committed to achieving childlessness before they start. However, other infertile people who have children or intent to adopt see me as stereotyping them and our weary of my outreach. I try to explain that I am only offering services to those who cannot reconcile their desire for children with their faith. Christian infertile parents seem to find this all the most offensive. I try to offer that I am giving the people who seek my ministry a choice, but it doesn’t help. I don’t understand why they do not want my help. I accept people regardless of their fertility status and don’t confer any more guilt on them for their infertility than on any other sinner. Where did I go wrong?
Wow. Excellent!
Double Wow!!!!
They most certainly are not amazing people who accepts everyone regardless of their sexual orientation. They believe that being gay is sinful. You need to ask a gay man or woman what the real definition of acceptance is and then decide if you want to keep having the last word on what that means for them, or if you will actually have the courage to give it to them fully.
A ministry like this is basically Christians still struggling with the fact that they know in their hearts that their gay friends are COMPLETELY WORTHY of Christ’s love, but yet refuse to question the Bible verses regarding homosexuality. They can’t seem to open their minds to other interpretations of scripture, or researching the scriptures in the context they were written, OR seeing how much the church chooses to disregard of the Law since it isn’t “relevent” for today’s culture. They are hung up between Christ’s love and the clobber verses…and this kind of ministry is the best you can do in that state.
Oh my! So heartful, so touching, and so painful. I hope her dad truly does “see” her, and does see her beauty and holiness.
Wow. You can’t read this and not feel the Spirit empowering this young woman to speak — not with hatred, but with truth and love.
I will be saving this. And praying for Fang-yi and her family.
Thank you for remembering us in your prayer.
What a wonderful, perfect way to express her heartbreak and need for recognition of who she is. Thank you, John for providing such a safe place for her to share herself.
Thanks for sharing this, John. We really do need to get better at seeing people. <3
WOW!!! Powerful, eloquent, perfect.
What a powerfully beautiful example of love facing down evil.
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