What role does church play in your spiritual life? Do you feel it’s a necessary component of it, a natural but not necessary extension of it, primarily a social thing, an obligation you could do without, or what?
I ask because last night at a dinner party with maybe twenty people I was chatting with a Christian woman who is easily one of the most compassionate and honorable people I’ve ever known: she has given her life to caring for broken children throughout their lives. Just an amazing person.
In the course of our conversation this friend made a jokey little confession about how she doesn’t go to church as often as she used to.
“Well, I’m pretty sure God’s okay with you skipping church every once in a while,” I said. “Look at your life. You are church, basically.”
With a surprisingly firm grip she took hold of my arm and guided us a few steps beyond the hearing of others. In an urgent but hushed voice she said, “No, I mean I haven’t been to church in three, maybe four years. I just stopped going.”
Loud enough for her alone to hear, I said, “Wow! I’m so surprised. If it means anything to you, I never go. But you! I thought you went at least once a week. What happened? Was there one reason you stopped going, or—”
“I just didn’t want to anymore. Which is really weird since I’ve gone to church all my life.” With an expression of happy confusion she shrugged her shoulders. “And then I just stopped going. I thought it would be a temporary thing. I thought I would miss it. I thought my spiritual life would suffer.” She dropped her voice to a conspiratorial whisper and closed the small gap of space between us. “But can I tell you something?”
“Please.”
“I don’t miss going to church. My spiritual life hasn’t suffered at all. It’s gotten better. I’m sixty-seven years old, and I’ve never been closer to Christ.”
“Great! Love it.”
“It is great. And it’s really made me rethink the whole concept of church.” She pushed up on her toes to bring her face closer to mine. With considerable gusto she whispered, “I’m not sure church is necessary.” She dropped back on her heels and regarded me matter-of-factly. “Why would it be? I have the Holy Spirit. I have the Bible. I have the people I love around me. I know Jesus. I pray, meditate, and read the Bible every day. My relationship with God has simply never been better. And it got that way without any church at all.”
So, whatcha think? Has it been your experience that Church is an indispensable component of the Christian life, or not so much? It seems to me that increasingly Christians I know or meet have stopped attending church. Some regularly pray and do Bible readings with their family, some do weekly prayer gatherings with their friends—small group without the larger church group, basically—and some simply go it alone.
You? Why? I’d love to hear.
![John Shore on The Huffington Post](http://johnshore.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/huffpost.jpg?w=120 "John Shore on The Huffington Post\")
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I LOVE going to church. Now, I don’t socialize with anyone at my church. And the director of the children’s program is an incredibly difficult person to deal with. It is a relatively diverse group, as churches go — I would guess it is 20% gay couples, 25% elderly, 50% people like me (white, married, with kids), 5% African-American. And the minister is sometimes too intellectual. AND YET. The minister always starts the service welcoming EVERYBODY in the whole wide world, no exceptions, and he really means it, and communion is always prefaced with an explanation that it isn’t the church’s table, it is Jesus Christ’s table, and He is the unseen host of the feast. And most of the time, the sermon is relevant to modern life and inspiring, and the music is unbelievably good. I used to have a problem saying the Apostle’s creed (I mean, do I really believe in the resurrection of the body? Whose body? My own? And when? And is it really our bodies that are resurrected, or our spirits, or what?), but at some point I just happily shrugged my shoulders just like John’s friend in his post, and decided that the real point of the whole thing is that every one of us gathered there in that holy place trusts God. When I pray the Lord’s Prayer with all those other imperfect strangers we ARE community. In real contrast, reading the Bible on my own does almost nothing for me at best, and scares the hell out of me at worst. When I read the scary-Jesus-casting-people-into-outer-darkness-and-gnashing-of-teeth passages, I know its time to go back to church and hear about His love and compassion and intention to save the whole world. I don’t know if church is necessary, but it is necessary for me. And I think my own experience of church would be better if John’s friend were there, saying the Lord’s Prayer in the pew next to me.
This is so beautiful, Heather.
IMO, church isn’t necessary, but really, really helpful. It provides a place to worship; a community to love, celebrate, mourn, grieve, eat, and wrestle with; accountability, continuing education, opportunities to put my faith into action, and I love singing my heart out with our gospel choir!
I’m glad someone said this. Someone made a disparaging comment about church as a “social club.” But the community functions of church are Godly too. The nicest wedding at a country club is missing something. There’s nothing more awful than a funeral at a funeral home, presided over by some preacher who never met the deceased. And (speaking as an Episcopalian, but other faiths have valid ways of doing things too) it’s sort of nice to have people who care that your baby was given a name, or that your child is old enough to make a decision to be confirmed. Ceremonies are important. Those ceremonies will be more important at different stages of your life – that’s why young couples planning to get married, people with small children, and old folks who know their friends are starting to thin and are becoming aware of their own mortality attend church more than people who don’t currently need the church’s services. At my church a certain faction feels a lot of rancor against young people who “join just to get married and then drop off the face of the earth.” I don’t see it that way. The church served them when they needed it. That’s what church is for, serving people. If they don’t feel a need for what the church offers when they aren’t about to get married, that’s the church’s fault, not theirs.
As I understand it, Church is supposed to be a place where we encounter God as a community. Shitty art, boring muzak, a Tony Robbins-esque sermon with some Jesus-Tea-Party flavor, and a bunch of strangers just doesn’t do it for me.
The most important thing is community. If a church were to welcome me understandingly into a community even if I don’t fit the mold, why not be a part of it? If that isn’t the case, however, it’s not just unnecessary. It’s toxic.
Hi Paul,
I am sorry for your experiences with the churches that you have tried I am certain those were temptation arrows and .. I want to encourage you to continue to try and give them a chance.. Look for one in your area that reads straight from the word of God and recognizes Jesus as the one and only Savior… Remember that Jesus didn’t give up on us. He’s not giving up on you and others that have had similar circumstances.. I know that we all have a role to play in the body of Christ.. no church is perfect! Infact Jesus used perfectly imperfect people to do his work when he walked the earth and furthermore still turning around lives to this day. One of which is me. I want to encourage you to find out what part of Christ’s body that you fit into. I pray for you that you put treasures into your eternal salvation that Paul refers to. I can personally testify as a self proclaimed introvert that the Lord has shown me grace in so many ways and especially through the love of my church family. I want you to understand that your relationship with the Lord is the most important thing.. spend time in His word and your faith with grow stronger and thru conviction of the Holy Spirit you will realize that loving others( yes even the one’s in church) is easier.
We are called to be in world shining His light, and not of the world..
but sometimes we fall to temptation and ruin the witness( like the one’s you’ve experiences but it does’nt have to be permanent and let those negative experiences have power over you.
In Christ
Shannon
John, I actually disagree.
I truly believe that the local church is the hope of the world for Christ. You are right when you say that we as followers of Christ technically are the church. At the same time, the Apostle Paul spent years of his life establishing local churches in towns. In my opinion, the local church therefore must be important.
Necessary though? Let’s let the Bible speak on that:
“Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” – Hebrews 10:25
&
“They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. ” – Acts 2:42-47
They met in the temple and in their homes. In my opinion, the local church is what Christ himself established (via declaring Peter in charge of it and telling him repeatedly, “Feed my sheep”) as of utmost importance.
Many people here are saying is that they are not finding Christ in the church and have been unable to effect change from within the church.
As I read many of these comments, many, many, people have found church to be counter-productive to the both the ideals and goals set forth in the scripture you quote.
I doubt if anyone here would argue with the notion of “feed my sheep.” What you seemed to have missed in John’s writing, and in the comments here, is that many churches are, in fact, starving their flocks.
I had similar thoughts when reading Jared’s comment… If a particular congregation is not an encouragement to a person, then it must not be the right ‘church’ for that person to be part of. And if the congregation is not anywhere near to meeting the requirements of Acts 2, then is it really a ‘church’ at all? And if not, then *not* going to their meetings is hardly a violation of Hebrews 10.
So, if what you experience in ‘church’ pulls you down instead of lifting you up, or if it bleeds you dry instead of filling you with life? GET OUT and find encouragement and a community of ‘glad and sincere hearts, praising God’ somewhere else…
You can’t be disagreeing with me, cuz I didn’t assert anything at all. I asked a question. And while I appreciate you saying, “You are right when you say that we as followers of Christ technically are the church,” I never said that at all. So … weird.
John,
I’m sorry, you are correct. I simply meant to say that I disagree not with you, but with the point the lady made, “I’m not sure that church is necessary.”
Additionally, again you are correct – you never said what I quoted. I was led to this conversation by a Facebook post of a friend of mine (he posted your blogpost) and had read through their comments. One of their comments mentioned that followers of Christ technically are the church. I had their thoughts still in my head and confused them as part of your blog post.
All in all I’m simply saying that I truly believe that when the local church acts like it should, then it will lead people into relationships with Christ and help develop them into fully devoted followers of Him. I do not believe we should neglect the local church (which based on Scripture is important) because of its faults, but rather help build the local church into an even better image of what Christ wants it to be.
Thank you each of you for taking the time to respond to my comment! I’m glad we are all one family in Christ.
Excellent. thank you, jared. I very much tend to agree with what you’ve said.
amen!
I’m coming to think that God is doing some of the deepest spiritual work outside of churches. But then, that’s just me. Tammy and I have been to church once since our lives were called on the carpet by the pastor of the church where we prayed every Wednesday, served on Sundays, stood in for the pastor during his surgery, and gave a lot of our money a year ago last July.
I believe that God is not so interested in buildings. People are the focus of Divine energy. Always have been; always will be.
I find mine is better, my relationship with god/one/universe is helathier and mor personal; and I don’t have to deal with the spiritual “white gloves” of other attendees. that said, church may be of service to those beginning life, spritual or physical.
Not going to church for years was great. Evangelical friends thought I would lose my faith, and to them, that’s what happened, because I stopped being ridiculous, fake and church-jargony. But I became a way better, authentic person. Recently found a fun, feminist, LGBT-friendly church that’s pretty run of the mill other than that it cares about equality and looks at the gospel in a way that shows that it requires respect for all people (lots of great liberation theology thrown in, which I love – <3 social justice and Jesus <3). It's weird to start going to church again, but kind of exciting – I like the blessing the minister gives us, I like the sermon, and I like the lovely old building too.
The music kind of sucks, but I feel like it would be really picky to worry about that.
But I don't think church is necessary, especially since if you have friends who support you and maybe are there to pray with you if you need it, you already go to church. Some years back, I used to have 'international church' in my small town when I was an immigrant, with the other immigrants. It was like 10 people, one of whom had a guitar, discussing things and singing on a sunday at someone's house.
Church is supposed to support you and give you some structure so you can grow and have some worship time. If it holds you back, don't go! If it adds to your life, go. I feel like that's the 'freedom in Christ' that we have, when there's no law binding us.
I love this response – so freeing!
I love my church. But I have a chronic illness that makes me extremely fatigued. If I go to church, the rest of the day is pretty much a wash, as I need to sleep all day to make up for the effort of the whole going-to-church thing.
I did not actually realize that it was my illness that was making church attendance seem overwhelming, until I started writing this comment. Realizing yet another restriction due to my illness – well it sucks.
Anyway, the sermons are online if I choose to listen to them, so that is good.
I like praying/meditating. I do so every day. So I guess that is what I will continue to do.
Susan in NY
What do you have? Do you have CFS? I’ve had that for 15 years.
I loved my Episcopalian church, but the pressure to continue in the choir made me shy away. I love to sing and loved choir, but have too many competing obligations for me to be able to give enough of a commitment to it. I’ve never done well with feeling pressured, so I just started to stay away. I went to church with my husband for a while, but his church is a new-agey metaphysical loosely Christ-based group that didn’t feel that spiritually refreshing to me.
I have always felt communion with God when I am listening to music and when I am in the outdoors. Often on my long commute I’ll listen to music I find spiritual and I will sing and pray and generally have a very wonderful time in my relationship with Christ. Similarly, when I’m outside on my horse or walking along the river, I find myself feeling very mindful of God. Those times can be times of gratitude or of healing, of comfort or solace or joy.
In terms of community, early this year we became friends with a woman who is now giving riding lessons at our place. Our barn has become home to a constant flow of children and families and opportunities to love others. We have a group from the UGM’s women’s shelter that comes once a week and learns to care for the horses, and I have been giving lessons to a young manwho is a pastor at the Salvation Army. We have several families with children who we get to know while their children are taking lessons, and we have a few young ladies who dont’ have the money for lessons that trade chores for the chance to ride. To me, this is our church. We have community and an opportunity to help others as well as receive help and love from others. I don’t think it is necessary to go to a church to be a Christian. Whether you are in a church or not, your level of relationship with Christ is a highly individual thing. Lots of people go to church but don’t have a close relationship with God. As one of my favorite bumper stickers says, “Going to Church doesn’t make me a Christian any more than being in my garage makes me a car.”
A church where you look after horses and ride? My daughter would think it was heaven
I’m wrestling with my personal answer to this question at the moment. Growing up we didn’t attend church. My parents were believers but my dad is not a fan of most preachers. I would attend various churches time to time with friends. In high school I got “saved” and attended church with a friend on occasion. Over the next 15 years or so I attended several churches from time to time but didn’t find one where I really connected. 5 1/2 years ago I was going through a divorce and was really in need of community and friendship. I found a church where I connected and my kids connected and for 4 1/2 years or so it was mostly a great experience and an important part of our lives. But even being in a church where the experience was good for us there were things that I didn’t like about going to church – the pressure to serve more, commit more, give more etc. There was a building campaign and after awhile it seemed like the building was very much THE focus. Then the beginning of this year, I picked a word for the year and my word was “devotion”. As my pursuit of being more devoted to God and seeking Him out more developed things started to come to the surface for me that were not in keeping with that pursuit. The pastor started recycling all his messages from 2 years ago. I was BORED which led me to read more and listen to sermons from other churches. I discovered that the pastor was mostly giving canned sermons from sermon starter series. I don’t necessarily think it is wrong for a pastor to do this but it bothered me that it was done without it being clear. As I read more and studied more, I became convicted that the position many in the church had on same sex marriage wasn’t necessarily correct. I started talking about the issue of same sex marriage and my political opinions on Facebook. Some people from church defriended me. Other people stopped talking to me. Then I had an issue with people gossiping and carrying tales. Pastors were involved in the gossiping. None of the people who were gossiping thought it was wrong. I took a break and other people started telling me stories unsolicited about similiar things that had happened to them. I had a few people personally attack me and basically suggest I should/might be shunned or ostracized for my opinions in favor of same sex marriage. I wrote a 5 page letter to my pastor explaining why I resigning my membership and he pretty much blew me off with a thanks for sharing and hope you’re blessed whereever you go. So I haven’t been to church in 5 months other than when I visited my granny. And I’m enjoying my Sundays a lot more. No more hectic rush out the door to church for service or to teach, no hectic afternoons cooking all day and leaving my kitchen a disaster to hurry up and get to life group for the evening. No more boredom – some Sundays I don’t do anything “churchy” – other Sundays I listen to sermons from a variety of churches online or read interesting books on theology and faith. I have a list of possible churches to try that are more progressive but so far I haven’t been able to convince myself to go check any of them out. I don’t know that I will never attend church again but I also don’t know that I will get involved and committed to a level where people want to place pressure and expectations on you again either. My inclination at the moment is that if I start going again I will be a visitor at a number of churches of varying traditions and denominations. But for the moment I’m pretty happy doing “church” on my own at home and via the Internet…
There is no way to describe the lifelong search that my best friend and I have gone through in hopes to find a community
I can relate. I’ve left Christianity entirely because of all the sad and awful associations it brings to me. I don’t deny I may have thrown baby Jesus out with the bathwater for now, but I just simply had to. My southern upbringing and abuse from the church on all levels was simply too much. Thankfully, I’ve not only left the church but have left that poisonous environment. What’s not so great is that I had to leave the person I love the most in the world behind- my best friend.
I just got off the phone with her still in tears over things that her “new” church has been telling her. They are urging her to end her relationship with the man she is with because he doesn’t fit into their idea of who a Christian should be (which, might I add, he is a very intelligent, kind, loving, out-of-the-box thinker). She and I have both been through some pretty terrible church experiences together and I felt at a loss with what to tell her. She longs SO much for a community of believers that will show love and acceptance to her, and struggles with whether “forsaking the assembly” would be a sin.
Little (if ANY) good has come from both of our lifelong church experiences. How do I encourage her? I don’t want to discourage her from finding community, but this is the south we are talking about. Anyone who is considered “Christian” there fits pretty nicely into that fundamental box, which I don’t want her being involved with. To tell her to stop going to church would be like telling her to stop having hope that there is a community of believers out there for her. But I cannot express the real… almost hate that I have when I find that she has been hurt and abused by the church and the religious community again.
Any ideas?
I have never lived in the South–is it really that uniformly committed to fundamentalism? When I check on Integrity’s website for congregations that are Believe Out Loud (http://congregations.integrityusa.org/) congregations, just to go to the extremes of non-fundamentalist, there are 13 in Georgia, a couple in Alabama, etc. It’s no Los Angeles or San Francisco, but if there is more than one Episcopal congregation to be found, there are probably other denominations as well? Hope hope…
I am almost embarassed to say I have found a number of churches in my area that I like, so much so that even though I am a member of one, I can’t stay away from the others. I go to a Wednesday Bible study at a different church and I went to the regular service there on Sunday after watching my church’s early service on streaming video. Even in the extremely liberal church I belong to, there is some degree of “spiritual abuse.” There is no perfect spiritual community, but I have had the good fortune of finding good people to be in communion with in a lot of places, some are churches and some are not.
You interloper.
I haven’t read everything here, but I have noticed that some people crave that “community” or family to be around and be known by. I wonder, though, if this also has somthing to do with being an extravert versus being an introvert. Church has always been work for me (always a requirement, not a desire) because it take a lot of energy to be around a lot of people, even when they are beloved people. As an introvert, I recharge in solitude. Church has never been a sabbath “rest” for me. Sundays were always pretty much just another work day. Since I stopped going to church a couple of years ago, my Sundays have become true days of rest.
Couldn’t agree more. Institutions by default have a one-size-fits-all structure, so of course not everyone feels like they fit. I didn’t fit anywhere near church for a very long time. I’m still not a true fit for my introversion as well. Which may mean I may not find a community that accepts me for what I contribute, and that will have to be ok too.
I’m doubling down that church is what you make it, and to put a finer point on it, I believe church is either an adjunct of faith or it is a roadblock to it.
Indeed!
And congrats on your encouraging trip to church yesterday.
this video came my way today, and it seemed worth re-posting here.
Starting at 1:05, 16 yo Joseph says, “I don’t see why I should go to a church when God doesn’t even like me.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEt6zE3prNA&feature=player_embedded
I stopped going many years ago. At first it was because I was trying to get away from my ex-husband’s idea of how his Christianity gave him the right to be abusive and his church condoned it. I stayed home and read and re-read the Bible in order to understand how ‘my’ church had let me down, and to give me ammunition to fight Bible quotes with Bible quotes. What I learned was, it wasn’t my belief in Jesus that let me down, but my belief in churchy people. To make a long story short, I was angry for awhile, I sought out other belief systems as well as non-belief all together. I have come full circle and am back to learning from my Bible and trying to live the words that Jesus taught, but I haven’t been able to find a church home. I know the fellowship and lessons from the pulpit are quite necessary and fulfilling for many of my friends and family, but I feel fake when I go. Going out of obligation doesn’t seem right. (and I sometimes get upset when I hear hateful interpretations of the Word.) SO, church is not necessary for me. I find more fulfillment and enlightenment by reading and sharing the Bible in impromtu moments and worshiping daily as I appreciate the beauty of our world and love the people in it.
Jesus said, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matthew 36-39)
I can do that, or at least try. Not by showing off how well I go to church, but how I live my life. To me, this seems more real.
Imagine a Christian church community that is not invested in “brand-building or “brand-loyalty” at any cost; one that does not use coercion or even the implication of manipulation to achieve the slightest image of unification, because unification in itself is anathema. Imagine a church community that is invested in the total well-being of the individual, not the well-being of the institution. Think of a community that fully understands the healthy essence of “family” and “community,” where people come and go as needed, but stay connected out of choice, not obligation or pressure – not us vs. them, or the paranoid church against the world. That image is the church I want to belong to. A few of them exist. I suspect more want to exist but lack the leadership of progressive, free-thinking Christians to move them in that direction.
I don’t have to tell this crowd that the politics and business of church has pushed so much of the church so far beyond what Christ had intended that Jesus would probably not be welcome in many churches today. But the fact is that if those of us who see a clearer, less brand-identified and more authentic Jesus don’t stay active in churches, how will the church ever reform? That’s the dilemma that our reformation ancestors faced. We can always take our bat & ball and find another empty lot to play in – and many of us have to do just that out of self preservation. Or we can stay home and play in our own back yards. Or we can try hard to get our friends to play a new game, a better game that has everyone winning. I apologize for the weak analogy, because this certainly isn’t a game. It’s our lives and the lives of every child of God we’re talking about.
We know some people are addicted to pleasing others and will always remain in co-dependent relationships with their dysfunctional churches. We know sometime we all need a breather from the “churchiness” of our lives and history in our lives. But there is something uniquely wonderful, even awe inspiring about joining with a healthy group of fellow travelers, breaking bread together over stories of our journeys. We laugh, we sing, we sometimes cry together – but we feed one anothers need for community with love and support. We help to heal, advise and learn from one another. And let’s not forget the value of human touch. We have not yet achieved that virtually.
We happy travelers have made it through or are making it through the wilderness of toxicity that infects so much religion. So to me the question is do I try to help others along their journey even as I seek assistance in mine? Online is one thing (as essential as it has become for me), but in person is something else all together. So my vote is to stick with church. Reform where we can. Start over where we must. Draw from it what we need and give it all we can.
PS…Church can be and often is just two coming together in the presence of God. We must define church for ourselves, not the other way around. So, if your community does not have what you are looking for, create it. It can be that simple.
Russell, I agree. “Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am with them.”
Extremely well done, Russell. Thank you.
I really like what you’ve written Mark, but what occurs to me is that “a healthy group of fellow travellers” is all relative, right? I think I’m a
“healthy traveler,” but I’m sure there are other people who might say otherwise. Some of us are “healthy” some of the time, and under stress, we aren’t so much. It is the people who make our lives wonderful, and people who make it tough — so are we just supposed to isolate ourselves in the group of people we like (at the moment) and ignore the rest?
Paula, your point is very valid. “Healthy” can be a wildly relative term. I tend to look at the mental and spiritual health of the people I want to “congregate” with. Or as a friend says, “does their smile really touch their eyes.” True, none of us is 100% healthy all the time. I struggle with depression and use food as my anesthesia of choice. But I’ve learned to see the brilliance in and necessity of the community model that God created for us. I believe that none of us is intended to live our lives alone. In many ways, we are called to dependence upon one another – this is meant as co-dependence in the most positive sense. Family is one form of community; family-of-choice is another. Interwoven into all of this is that strange and wonderful divine calling to live as “children of light.” The very nature of light is to disperse, infuse and touch. I believe we are called to do all those things with people as the light of Christ’s Grace. But we must have the sustenance to follow-thru on that mission. So we draw energy from the people around us (given to us freely) and avoid the energy drainers. Amazingly, the more I am around people who truly fill me, I find that the “drainers” I encounter have less-and-less impact on me and the more “light” I have to share – perhaps even to energize them enough to continue on their journey.
So, don’t isolate or ignore, but rather plug into those who feed your spirit, imagination, body and soul. Then go into the world and shine…cause Christ’s light is infinate!
I’m a little late to the party and trying to catch up so apologize if I’m repeating…
Are we asking is church necessary or do I like any of the church options available? Seems like most of the answers are the second… given that I don’t like any of the church options available, it must not be necessary.
If church was a Friday night Radiohead concert followed by a TED talk with a beer our hand, there would probably be a lot more people there – especially people who like Radiohead, TED talks, and beer.
And then we would all say how necessary it is.
I guess my point is we all probably say church isn’t necessary because church generally sucks. So, maybe church should just stop sucking.
Whoomp: there it is.
Timely subject for me.
I am having a hard time. After two start up churches in two years we attended closed, we are faced with some tough decisions. We have been visiting a church in our town for the past 9 months or so but do not feel right about it for several varied reasons. Yesterday, we got the “vote with Jesus” sermon about the ills of homosexuality, promiscuity, and voting those issues that are on “Jesus’s side”. Of course, they did not bring up the name, but I am having a really hard time. In fact, my kids were not listening early in the sermon and I gave them the “look” and my daughter put away her social notes to a friend and my son gave me back his paper he was making an airplane out of. As the sermon went on…I gave my son back his paper and told him to make a cool plane.
I do not feel, for us with young kids, that not attending church is the right move, but rearing them in a conservative church (which is the least conservative in our town) may be worse. I am having a hard time with balancing this.
I have a rule of thumb, if the church’s views bring me farther from God given attributes like empathy, grace, kindness, and mercy then that is not the doctrine for me. I believe that Jesus did not mention homosexuality because it was or was not a sin…I think he didn’t mention it because it was not close to as important as other things Israel faced, like pride, traditional, arrogance, unhealthy nationalism, racism, etc. Those are the “biggies” and we find ourselves today with the exact same “biggies”, yet concentrating things on what Jesus did not.
I told a friend, I was looking for a single place where Jesus did not rebuke a disciple, person, or follower that expressed judgement on another. In fact, he even rebuked Peter and John in Luke when they wanted to “pray fire down” on the town that did not welcome Jesus and crew. In some translations they clarify the rebuke as them not knowing His heart. Since they were Samaritans, maybe Jesus understood their pain with the Jews of the day. Maybe He was saying that judgement is not designed for us.
So, I understand the issue with this your friend. I am discouraged too. It is a item for prayer for me this week.
Thanks for writing this article.
I don’t understand how parents think they need a church to rightly teach their children about God. Can you help me understand that, KA? I don’t have kids and I must admit, I’m glad I had a Sunday school upbringing because I know all the stories and stuff, but frankly, my mom could’ve taught me all of that.
Why do you need a church to teach your kids? Please don’t take that as judgement, I’m honestly asking–because I recognize the assumption that “kids should be raised in church.” I think we need to question that.
Youth group social network. I think it is important but I readily admit I am struggling. My kids are 4th grade, 6th and 6th (the other ones are grown).
For us, the social network is important but we are having trouble finding it.
Ah, I see. Yes, that is a tough one to give up. I pray that the Lord leads you to the perfect place for you and your kids.
I’ve found my spiritual life is no different with or without church
I believe that God wants God’s creation (by that, I mean human beings) to thrive mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually!!!
For me, as a former pastor in a conservative church – which embraced a (sometimes toxic) religious culture as if it were straight from the gates of heaven – and now as an openly gay man, I have walked away from church.
For me, it was a place of oppression, not a place where folk like me could thrive.
“A traditional religious belief is that “grace builds on nature,” in other words religious life depends on a good foundation in human health. Therefore we can legitimately evaluate the validity of a religious belief system by its psychological consequences. Good theology will result in good psychology, and vice versa. Accordingly, bad theology will have negative psychological consequences. This is nothing more than an application of the biblical norm: “You will be able to tell them by their fruits” (Matt. 7:16) If Saint Irenaeus proclaimed, the glory of God is humans FULLY ALIVE [emphasis mine], then clearly a belief system that results in the destruction of human health cannot serve the glory of God.”
~Dr. John J. McNeill
I have found that my spiritual life is actually much better without church. I encountered a lot of unfairness and spiritual abuse in churches, so I just stopped going. I don’t feel judged or rejected anymore, and I pray, meditate, and read the Bible and other good books daily. I feel God in my life, and I don’t miss church at all.
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